Console debate - Soundcraft 400b vs Yamaha PM1000

[jkretz]

Currently, the only preamps I have at my disposal are the ones within my Soundcraft 400b. I've heard great things about the Yamaha PM1000 and may be able to get my hands on one on the cheap.

Is the PM1000 a much better board than the 400b, or more of a lateral move? My soundcraft seems a bit noisy (not sure where it is coming from, just a general "hiss" when things start to get cranked) - would the PM1000 be any better?

[Sean Sullivan]

Both are 25 years old or so, and are likely going to need recapped (which is likely what's causing your noise issues).

I think PM-1000 need a little re-working to be the units people enjoy. It might be an idea to put a little work into your 400B.

Also, I believe the 400B have the line input feeding into the mic preamp, padded 20 db, which is essentially the same as mixing through a mic preamp (no ideal).

If you like the Soundcraft "sound" you might want to look for a Delta, Sapphyre, or 6000 (depending on how big of a desk you want). I wish I could find a Delta 8, the one with a meter bridge. For some reason I just don't like the idea of not having one.

[Dakota]

Kind of sideways. Some distinct trade-offs.

Quiet: a PM1k in proper repair is quieter. No hissy chips, simpler circuits, and most importantly transformer balanced i/o that tends to interrupt ground problems that would otherwise up the general noise. 400b can however benefit from the star ground mods, chip upgrades, power supply rebuild, and general re-cap and fixup. Even so, the 400b is a inherently more hissy design I think.

Pres: PM1k wins. Clearer, punchier, quieter. Transformer color, in a good way.

Routing, busses, general i/o: 400b wins. PM1k routing is odd and awkward.

EQ: 400b wins - the sweep eq in those sounds nice and is configured usefully. PM1k hi-pass is useful and good as is, low is fixed but sounds good, the mids are 3-position fixed and really need the frequencies moved (cap value change, not hard) to be useful. PM1k EQ is all inductors, which is cool and has a certain classic "musical" sound, but old soundcraft sweep mids are way more useful putting a mix together. If one settled on a PM1k as one's main workhorse and mixdown board, I'd definitely want to match that with multiple channels of good outboard parametric and other EQs to fill in what the PM1k lacks in EQ options.

Aux/fx sends: 400b has 4, right? PM1k has 2. Which is tough.

[The Scum]

The PM1000 is a dinosaur. The 400 isn't that far away from the more modern Soundcraft designs...Soundcraft just keep refining from the same basic starting point.

The PM1000 only has mic inputs...no line inputs at all. No insert points. No channel direct outs. No "stereo bus" as we think of them today, just 4 busses.

Unmodded, it's got a total of 7 outputs (4 busses, 2 auxes, and the talkback channel).

It's a good platform for mods, if you're handy...those inserts and direct outs aren't too tough to glom on.

I agree with the opinion above: the shortest path to a better mixer would be to do some maintenance on the 400.

[calaverasgrandes]

I look at it this way, the PM1000 is great if you plan to mix with the mics and the sounds of the sources. The soundcraft is better if you want to do more eq-ing and such.
I have mixed some really nice demos for bands that went on to bigger things on PM1ks. But that was a lot of luck with the instruments fitting the EQ on teh board. If a guitar falls in that area that is outside of the EQ range of the PM1000? And thats not hard since it has no eq under 1k. Even modified I think the lowest you can take the mid is 600hz?
I like to butcher 180-450hz on almost every guitar and bass I see.
Vocals too.
OTOH the mic pres on a PM1k make most things sound sweet without eq.