Mixing to a CD recorder

[atavacron]

Does anybody use a CD burner as their 2-track? What are the pros and cons?

Is there some reason not to do this, either for practicality or fidelity?

I've got a 2" machine, a nice analog desk, and a good mixdown deck. But I inevitably end up transferring the 24 tracks to the DAW for use as my source during mixdown, or I'll mix to 1/4" and then dump back into the DAW to get ready for mastering. Or if it's appropriate I'll just mix straight into converters. I'm thinking it might be cool to not open up the computer for a session once in a while... the faders-up board mix at the end of the tracking session is my main application for this - lightning fast to give the band something they can take away.

Any tips on particular models? There's a Marantz portable model, the CDR-300, that could also be a great field recorder. Dunno how the preamps are though, and I can't seem to find a manual to see if the thing does +4 I/O. There's also the Tascam rackmount burners - CD-RW700, CD-RW2000, et al, which look pretty snazzy. Sony CDR W33 got good reviews as well. Is using the converters on these silly for mixdown if I have pretty good converters to my DAW already? (Okay I know that paragraph goes in Gear Talk, but whatevs...)

[The Scum]

Pros?

I guess that you get a CD in real time.

Cons?

They only do 44.1/16. If you're expecting anything close to 24/96, this won't be it...but as a one-way reference to send how with the band, it probably works. You could always run it in parallel with the 2-track, too.
Stopping recording then restarting is dicey on some...it's a one shot deal. There is no rewind, at all. Newer ones may be better than the ones I've got experience with.
The consumer grade ones require you to use special media, which has the RIAA royalty built into the price. So the media isn't nearly as cheap as a plain computer CDR.

[jmiller]

It's been a while, but in the past I've worked on sessions where guys have printed their CD mixes to a Masterlink or equivalent. The idea being that in doing so, you bypassed the whole dithering/downsample thing.

The catch, though, is that for it to be worthwhile you had to use high end converters (Lavry, etc) in front of the mixdown machine. The converters in those CD machines aren't going to be great (especially in the Masterlink). So you'd have a chain like this:

Multitrack (PTHD 24/96) --> Console --> Mixbus --> Converters (16/44) --> ML (AES input)

It works great, but of course, for the vast majority of people it's probably overkill and prohibitively expensive to do it right.

If you've got good converters going to the computer already, you could try something like Waveburner Pro (Mac) or Samplitude (Win). Samplitude has some low track-count versions that are great for Mastering for under $100. You just print (or import) your mixes in, apply your processing on each song, if wanted, drop your CD markers and hit "Print CD" and there you go. It can even print your Table of Contents to put in the cd jewel case. They're on v.10 or something now, and I still use v6 for quick mastering/cd printing stuff. Great program.

[snoopy23]

I do the same thing. I mix down from my board straight to a Sony CD recorder. I have been doing this for a couple years now and while it is not the optimal path, it seems to work fine for the punk/garage rock stuff I end up recording. There are the obvious pro's and con's, but here are some tips. When mixing and burning, make sure you listen to the mix through the cd converters rather than the straight board feed. The converters in these cd recorders are not the best and can crap out well before their input meters hit the red. I will often get the mix as close as I want it, run it through the cd burner, and monitor the output from the converters. This will give a better picture of what is going to happen to the sound after hitting the cheap converters, and you can make adjustments before finalizing your mix. Another neat trick is to save two tracks (if you can) in your DAW, tape machine, or whatever and send your dfinal mixes there. Then you can maintain fidelity and bit rate and re-send it to hard drive, flash drive, dat, tape, or whatever. Hope it helps!

[centurymantra]

I've got a Masterlink that I mix down to from my board, but I do also have a CD recorder. I actually kind of love having it around. The unit I have is a Sony CDR-W33 which I picked up sort randomly, and as it turns out this is a highly regarded CD recorder...even at it's somewhat "vintage" (ca. 2000) age. This doesn't surprise me as the thing is rock solid, sounds good and the A/D is surprisingly (I mean VERY surprisingly) decent, with Sony's Super Bit Mapping incorporated as a feature. I use this for LP and cassette transfers occasionally, although the lack of XLR inputs make it a bit dicy for profressional use. Even so, with outboard A/D, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend them on the used market for mixdown purposes....if you really want to to go this route that is.

That being said, I don't use it for mixdown on a regular basis, but I like using it for rough mixes to reference, and there is something satisfying about having a CD in your hands immediatley that can be popped into a player right away.

[oldguitars]

i wouldn't bother, especially if you have to buy one. Just mix into the DAW...

[atavacron]

hey thanks for your opinions, everyone! i didn't realize anyone had replied. cool.

[Country Rebel]

Thanks alot for this post. I also mix to an external cd burner. I have a tascam cdr-w4u. Mostly its just been very convenient over the years as I did mostly 4 and 8 track analog recordering. I am now using pro-tools tdm. Its an old 6-4 version but I got it cheap and it works for me. I mixdown to a stand alone 1/4 Otari 5050 tape machine. I then go out of my otari into my amp and then into the cd burner. It sounds fine, however I am always looking for ways to improve anything that I can.

1. Should I be going outa the tape machine back thru my 888's and record 2 tracks back into protools ??
2. Should I be going outa the tape machine into a decent stereo mic pre then 888's and then into protools ??

In a way I like going thru my amp because it has some bass & treble eq on so I can half-ass master before going into my cd burner. But from what I have read this aint such a good move.

I would love to hear what other are doing with a analog mixdown setup!!

[cgarges]

At Old House Studio, I've got two Masterlinks hooked-up from mults on the patchbay of the console outs. I record mixes to one at 24/88.2 and to the other either at 16/44.1 or 24/44.1. Either way, I've got safeties of the mixes on two different machines and the band can get a reference disc faster.

I always listen back to the full-on stereo mixes from the 2-track device after printing (to make sure it printed okay), but I don't always listen back to the tv/instrumental mixes. In at least one instace, having two machines going saved my ass when about 8 months after one album I did came out, the artrist called and said there was a problem with one of the instrumental mixes he needed. I had him check the 16-bit discs and the backup machine had worked just fine. All was well.

Actually, I had a similar situation with a batch of bad 1/4" tape. I was mixing at Electrical Audio in 2006 (just after Quantegy had opened up again) and would print a digital copy of the mixes while listening back to the 1/4" print. When we got to mastering, the 1/4" tape had developed drop-outs. Fortunately, I had the digital versions (made from the 1/4", but fine-- further proof thet the dropouts had developed over a four-week period) and we were able to splice in a couple of bits where the dropouts were happening.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC