I want to buy a console!

[thegeek]

I have been reading this forum for a few days now and I'm finally going to ask some questions.

First off... I am more of a tinkerer than a professional...

Here's my rig:

DIGI001 into PT LE 6.4
PreSonus Digimax FS connected via ADAT for extra channels.
A decently fast computer to do what I need.

To date I've been 100% in the box... and the more I work in the box the more I hate it... so I'd like to move to a console.

I was thinking about a Soundcraft 6000 console. I know they aren't the greatest on the planet but I've heard good things. A lot of other PT users are telling me to stick to single instrument tracking, overdubs and the "modern" method of recording... but I think something gets lost when that happens.

I'd like to start live tracking.

I think that PT 6.4 only allows 16 simultaneous tracks being recorded at the same time... so I'm limited there.

What about an old TDM system with a couple 882 interfaces?

I'm open to whatever suggestions people have for me.

[Chris_Meck]

Hi, I work with a console, and have had a lot of...ummm...adventures in getting computers to play nice with them.

I think that rather than 16 ins being limited, you'll be more limited by your 'outs'. At least, if you're planning on mixing through the console, you'll need something like 24 outs or so, yes? I've rarely used more than 10 in at a time, but routinely use 20 plus 'outs'. On the cheapish side of things I've found really only 2 interfaces that will do that: you can buy a MOTU 24 i/o for around $1400. MOTU stuff is pretty great for the money, but their customer service is perhaps as bad as there is. Or you could buy two Echo Audiofire 12's and link them. And that's about it, without getting a lot more expensive.

Older consoles will require maintenace. Fair warning. Mine does, yours will too, and Soundcraft 6000's have a nice reputation. but you're going to have to work on it, or pay someone else to do so. Food for thought.

[tactics]

I have been reading this forum for a few days now and I'm finally going to ask some questions.

First off... I am more of a tinkerer than a professional...

Same as most of us here, so your in good company.

I was thinking about a Soundcraft 6000 console. I know they aren't the greatest on the planet but I've heard good things.

The S6000 is an excellent place to start.I had one for 10 years and was a pleasure to own.
Simple to use console with good enough mic preamps to record a whole album on.
Easy to maintain and repair. Mine never missed a beat in 10 years.
Always allow some extra $$$ when buying a console for cabling and maybe a tech report if you are new to this sort of thing.
S6000 thread here.

[Sean Sullivan]

I work at a studio that runs a TDM rig with 3 888's and a Soundcraft Ghost 24 channel console (you are going to want some extra outs to use outboard compressors and such unless you want a patchbay) and honestly, I think it sounds great. Plus, it's stable. If you like Pro Tools, a TDM rig is a viable option.

[Harry]

I got all the way out of the box a few years ago and never looked back.

Like someone said getting a computer and a board to "play nice" can be a pain. and to get it to sound good and have the ability to record many tracks live can snowball into some serious cash and heartache.

I went with what this guy has for sale
http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopic.php?t=67998

(you don't need the brc)

This is a great rig in my opinion...never crashes and sounds good.(and it's meant to work with a console)

Mixers are going cheap....good outboard gear is going cheap. classic outboard gear is a lot more fun and you can sell it for what you have into it(unlike software)


""A lot of other PT users are telling me to stick to single instrument tracking, overdubs and the "modern" method of recording.""
....This is fucking lame...don't ever talk to these people again:)

There are a lot of great boards out there going cheap. Be patient and find a good one that's working well. They're not all tech nightmares.

Do your research and keep asking questions. That's what these forums are for.
Good luck

[chris harris]

Like someone said getting a computer and a board to "play nice" can be a pain.

This is the second time this has been mentioned, and I have no idea what it means. My computer doesn't even know that my console exists. As long as you can get multiple outs from your DAW (not a pain at all) then your DAW will "play nice" with your console.

If you guys had problems getting multiple outputs from your DAW, then this is a problem with your DAW gear, and has nothing to do with "getting a computer and board to 'play nice'". Stating it that way is just confusing to people who've never used a console.

If your DAW has multiple outputs and your console has multiple inputs, then they will "play nice" with each other.

[Harry]

Like someone said getting a computer and a board to "play nice" can be a pain.

This is the second time this has been mentioned, and I have no idea what it means. My computer doesn't even know that my console exists. As long as you can get multiple outs from your DAW (not a pain at all) then your DAW will "play nice" with your console.

If you guys had problems getting multiple outputs from your DAW, then this is a problem with your DAW gear, and has nothing to do with "getting a computer and board to 'play nice'". Stating it that way is just confusing to people who've never used a console.

If your DAW has multiple outputs and your console has multiple inputs, then they will "play nice" with each other.

Can you give us a breakdown of your system.

It can be done for sure,but it cost money. then if you want it to sound good it will cost you more money...then you need better converters....better clocks..by that time you'll need a better computer..all of which will need to be upgraded in a few years. If you ever want or need to get out from under it you'll get maybe 20% return on the thousands of dollars you have invested.
I don't want to confuse anybody. I'm just throwing in my opinion.

Please expand on what works for you so it might clear things up for the OP.

[chris harris]

Like someone said getting a computer and a board to "play nice" can be a pain.

This is the second time this has been mentioned, and I have no idea what it means. My computer doesn't even know that my console exists. As long as you can get multiple outs from your DAW (not a pain at all) then your DAW will "play nice" with your console.

If you guys had problems getting multiple outputs from your DAW, then this is a problem with your DAW gear, and has nothing to do with "getting a computer and board to 'play nice'". Stating it that way is just confusing to people who've never used a console.

If your DAW has multiple outputs and your console has multiple inputs, then they will "play nice" with each other.

Can you give us a breakdown of your system.

It can be done for sure,but it cost money. then if you want it to sound good it will cost you more money...then you need better converters....better clocks..by that time you'll need a better computer..all of which will need to be upgraded in a few years. If you ever want or need to get out from under it you'll get maybe 20% return on the thousands of dollars you have invested.
I don't want to confuse anybody. I'm just throwing in my opinion.

Please expand on what works for you so it might clear things up for the OP.

None of those expenses have anything to do with difficulty getting the computer and console to play nice together. Sure, there are expenses. But, if you've got an interface with multiple outputs and a console with multiple inputs, then they are compatible.

I use 2 MOTU 2408mk3 interfaces, being fed via ADAT from an SSL Alphalink 24 channel AD/DA converter. My console is a 26 channel TAC Matchless. There was significant investment in converters, cables, etc... But, if you plan it properly, and know that it's not a cheap option, it can be a simple, effective way to work. I have ZERO hassles with my setup.

[Dakota]

If you ever want or need to get out from under it you'll get maybe 20% return on the thousands of dollars you have invested.

If you take time, do research ahead of purchases, and buy most items used at not greater than average to just under average market prices, there's no reason one can't get out from under at the same money that went in for most items.

[Sean Sullivan]

Dakota makes a good point. I've never purchased anything I can't turn around and sell for exactly, if not more, than I paid.

[thegeek]

great info guys!

Thanks! I'm not in a rush to make the change and I'm open to ideas. I've even considered holding out for something like a Toft Audio board.

[Sean Sullivan]

If you can use a soldering gun and have a basic understanding on how to read schematics I think you could make a Soundcraft 6000, Delta, or Sapphyre smoke a Toft.

[Harry]

Like someone said getting a computer and a board to "play nice" can be a pain.

This is the second time this has been mentioned, and I have no idea what it means. My computer doesn't even know that my console exists. As long as you can get multiple outs from your DAW (not a pain at all) then your DAW will "play nice" with your console.

If you guys had problems getting multiple outputs from your DAW, then this is a problem with your DAW gear, and has nothing to do with "getting a computer and board to 'play nice'". Stating it that way is just confusing to people who've never used a console.

If your DAW has multiple outputs and your console has multiple inputs, then they will "play nice" with each other.

Can you give us a breakdown of your system.

It can be done for sure,but it cost money. then if you want it to sound good it will cost you more money...then you need better converters....better clocks..by that time you'll need a better computer..all of which will need to be upgraded in a few years. If you ever want or need to get out from under it you'll get maybe 20% return on the thousands of dollars you have invested.
I don't want to confuse anybody. I'm just throwing in my opinion.

Please expand on what works for you so it might clear things up for the OP.

None of those expenses have anything to do with difficulty getting the computer and console to play nice together. Sure, there are expenses. But, if you've got an interface with multiple outputs and a console with multiple inputs, then they are compatible.

I use 2 MOTU 2408mk3 interfaces, being fed via ADAT from an SSL Alphalink 24 channel AD/DA converter. My console is a 26 channel TAC Matchless. There was significant investment in converters, cables, etc... But, if you plan it properly, and know that it's not a cheap option, it can be a simple, effective way to work. I have ZERO hassles with my setup.

Ok....so yeah....for a minimum of 3K for just interfaces and converters I'm sure your computer has no idea you even have a console(your computer that I'm sure is a super kick ass machine!)

I don't think the OP is in this league?

[thegeek]

If you can use a soldering gun and have a basic understanding on how to read schematics I think you could make a Soundcraft 6000, Delta, or Sapphyre smoke a Toft.

any more info on that?

[Dakota]

I don't think the OP is in this league?

The OP could potentially get great home studio results at a budget for $500 to $800 for A/D/A (and we can skip a lot of that because his 001 and FS are already sufficient, but he needs more outs, but that's simple: frontier tango 24, alesis ai3, or behringer ada8000), $500 to $800 for a console, $300 for snakes, cables, a few trs patchbays. Get all this stuff used, choose it well, and we are not talking big leagues in the outlay.

It's not that big a deal to get out of the box. Best time ever for it, really, with consoles running cheap used.