Adding Energy To Songs / Recordings
*DISCLAIMER* I am listening on headphones that aren't the greatest so my POV might not be perfect... but I'll put in my two cents.
Listening to "Caught in a Crosswalk"
Bass: Almost lost entirely at times. There's no real punch or depth... kind of boring. Maybe some compression?
I also agree that your bass player needs to work the pocket a little. Its a good idea to keep the drums right on a click (if you use one) and let the bass kind of push that a little. That drummer should feel like he has to hold the band back. That will add a lot of energy and suspense to any song.
Drums: There are some great, simple fills done in this song. But all I'm hearing is snare and a little kick.. There's hardly any OH or toms. The kit sound very small. Without taking up too much room you need to bring the drums out of the mix. They are lost in the mud.
Just curious but how much were you getting out of the drummer when this was recorded? I used to play with a drummer who was very technically sound but hit like a pussy and when recording his beats were boring and flat.
You might not agree with me... but that's ok. I won't be offended.
Listening to "Caught in a Crosswalk"
Bass: Almost lost entirely at times. There's no real punch or depth... kind of boring. Maybe some compression?
I also agree that your bass player needs to work the pocket a little. Its a good idea to keep the drums right on a click (if you use one) and let the bass kind of push that a little. That drummer should feel like he has to hold the band back. That will add a lot of energy and suspense to any song.
Drums: There are some great, simple fills done in this song. But all I'm hearing is snare and a little kick.. There's hardly any OH or toms. The kit sound very small. Without taking up too much room you need to bring the drums out of the mix. They are lost in the mud.
Just curious but how much were you getting out of the drummer when this was recorded? I used to play with a drummer who was very technically sound but hit like a pussy and when recording his beats were boring and flat.
You might not agree with me... but that's ok. I won't be offended.
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The Scum
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Having a rhythm section that works well together, and understands how to give the song what it needs is a great place to start. If the foundation is good, it's a lot easier to build on.
You can edit and gate and compress and varispeed, but it never really gets that much better. Having a drummer and bassist really inside the song as it's happening, with big smiles on their faces is the way to do it.
Go check out the drummer in that "shine a light" video. His dynamics, tempo and excitement are all excellent, and they each travel independently.
You can edit and gate and compress and varispeed, but it never really gets that much better. Having a drummer and bassist really inside the song as it's happening, with big smiles on their faces is the way to do it.
Go check out the drummer in that "shine a light" video. His dynamics, tempo and excitement are all excellent, and they each travel independently.
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MoreSpaceEcho
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i didn't listen to the tracks in question so this is all just in general...
adding some percussion can really help, some 16th note tambourine or shaker can add some nice movement/energy. there's the old motown trick of adding cowbell playing quarter notes, slightly on top. add just enough of that so you don't hear it, but you miss it when it's muted.
compression can be your friend. sometimes the drummer is playing just fine, but the sound might be a little flat/dull. some well-timed squash can make nearly any kit sound more exploding. likewise if you have a vocal that sounds good but seems lacking in attitude, crush it and then blend that in with the uncompressed vocal.
look at your arrangement. songs where everybody is chugging away on every eighth note the whole time are boring. strum strum strum strum zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. write parts that have some space to them, that interlock with each other. much more interesting.
look at how your mix develops. if the only thing that really changes at the chorus is your drummer going to open hihats, you lose. listen to some well-crafted pop songs and notice how *something* happens pretty much every 4 bars. it's not about 'ear candy', it's about keeping things moving, and keeping the interest up. ride the faders and be merciless with the mute buttons. just because somebody played something during basic tracking (or as an overdub) doesn't mean it's gotta be there in the final mix. or it doesn't have to be there the whole time.
don't think that you can cover up a basic lack of energy by adding more stuff. you can, sorta, sometimes (like the tambourine example above), but you are more likely just to make a soupy mess. i read some eno quote once that was something like "everything you add obscures what's already there" and those are some wise words. anyone else ever hear a band where the drummer and bass player are killing it, and then the guitar player comes in with either some limp wristed, out of pocket chicka-chicka bullshit, or worse, some non-commital noodly lead rambling? thereby totally detracting from what the bass and drums are doing? i sometimes wish i had a mute button at live shows. i ramble, but the point is, if you've got some awesome guitar part, don't cover it up with 45 different overdubs, just turn the good one up a little too loud.
think about tension and release. release is the fun, easy part, but you've gotta build up the tension to make it mean anything. garges mentioned neurosis, and those guys are masters of this. most of their songs are slow slow slow, and there's never any shortage of energy, even on the really long, drawn out quiet parts. and their drummer is a good example of someone who writes parts with a lot of space in them. it *seems* like he's doing a lot sometimes, but if you really listen and try and visualize what he's actually playing, you realize there's lots of little pauses and rests in his parts. and that makes the song breathe and leaves room for the rest of the band.
adding some percussion can really help, some 16th note tambourine or shaker can add some nice movement/energy. there's the old motown trick of adding cowbell playing quarter notes, slightly on top. add just enough of that so you don't hear it, but you miss it when it's muted.
compression can be your friend. sometimes the drummer is playing just fine, but the sound might be a little flat/dull. some well-timed squash can make nearly any kit sound more exploding. likewise if you have a vocal that sounds good but seems lacking in attitude, crush it and then blend that in with the uncompressed vocal.
look at your arrangement. songs where everybody is chugging away on every eighth note the whole time are boring. strum strum strum strum zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. write parts that have some space to them, that interlock with each other. much more interesting.
look at how your mix develops. if the only thing that really changes at the chorus is your drummer going to open hihats, you lose. listen to some well-crafted pop songs and notice how *something* happens pretty much every 4 bars. it's not about 'ear candy', it's about keeping things moving, and keeping the interest up. ride the faders and be merciless with the mute buttons. just because somebody played something during basic tracking (or as an overdub) doesn't mean it's gotta be there in the final mix. or it doesn't have to be there the whole time.
don't think that you can cover up a basic lack of energy by adding more stuff. you can, sorta, sometimes (like the tambourine example above), but you are more likely just to make a soupy mess. i read some eno quote once that was something like "everything you add obscures what's already there" and those are some wise words. anyone else ever hear a band where the drummer and bass player are killing it, and then the guitar player comes in with either some limp wristed, out of pocket chicka-chicka bullshit, or worse, some non-commital noodly lead rambling? thereby totally detracting from what the bass and drums are doing? i sometimes wish i had a mute button at live shows. i ramble, but the point is, if you've got some awesome guitar part, don't cover it up with 45 different overdubs, just turn the good one up a little too loud.
think about tension and release. release is the fun, easy part, but you've gotta build up the tension to make it mean anything. garges mentioned neurosis, and those guys are masters of this. most of their songs are slow slow slow, and there's never any shortage of energy, even on the really long, drawn out quiet parts. and their drummer is a good example of someone who writes parts with a lot of space in them. it *seems* like he's doing a lot sometimes, but if you really listen and try and visualize what he's actually playing, you realize there's lots of little pauses and rests in his parts. and that makes the song breathe and leaves room for the rest of the band.
Last edited by MoreSpaceEcho on Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
Before I read Chris' post I was thinking "there's no way I'm mentioning STP here on Tape Op." They were the first example I was thinking of.Stone Temple Pilots are killer at this.
That singer is annoying, but they do this well.However...I think one of the necessary evils in their high energy/slower tempo formula is the squashing compression. Especially those drums, that smashed snare. I couldn't imagine their records having as much force with an early 70's Hal Blaine treatment.
"I have always tried to present myself as the type of person who enjoys watching dudes fight other dudes with iron claws."
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MoreSpaceEcho
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yeah, for that type of stuff you kinda need the smashed snare to fill out the space between the backbeats. if it just went 'pup' it wouldn't be too exciting. a big part of the energy is the feeling of 'that drummer is just KILLING those drums'. which, he probably wasn't, but the compression gives that impression, and it's a good one.
off topic but in defense of STP....back in 2002 i helped a friend move from boston to chicago. i was driving the Uhaul and all i had was FM radio with one working speaker. i was going through the stations and hearing mostly modern stuff and hoo boy was it all terrible. there was some christian rock station in ohio that was especially deplorable. anywhat, at some point i heard 'interstate love song' (i think that's the title? the one that's a direct lift of 'traveling riverside blues') and at that point it was pretty much the best tune i'd ever heard. i don't have any of their records and i'm not likely to buy 'em, but they always struck me as pretty decent songwriters, they had some cool chord progressions and the drummer could swing.
off topic but in defense of STP....back in 2002 i helped a friend move from boston to chicago. i was driving the Uhaul and all i had was FM radio with one working speaker. i was going through the stations and hearing mostly modern stuff and hoo boy was it all terrible. there was some christian rock station in ohio that was especially deplorable. anywhat, at some point i heard 'interstate love song' (i think that's the title? the one that's a direct lift of 'traveling riverside blues') and at that point it was pretty much the best tune i'd ever heard. i don't have any of their records and i'm not likely to buy 'em, but they always struck me as pretty decent songwriters, they had some cool chord progressions and the drummer could swing.
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suppositron
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For me, a change in tempo is most effective (and only effective sometimes) when it's by the players, causing the feel to change just that little bit ... Nothing like that edge-of-control "can we actually play it good while playing it that fast" or "can we keep it reigned in" thing ...
On stuff already recorded, I start to look for arrangement choices in the mix, and dynamics ...
(I posted this before reading page 2 of the thread, not realizing there is a page 2.)
On stuff already recorded, I start to look for arrangement choices in the mix, and dynamics ...
(I posted this before reading page 2 of the thread, not realizing there is a page 2.)
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LazarusLong
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+1... Heck, +2. To me it's much more impressive when it's a slow song and it still rips my face off. Lou Reed can rip you apart at 60BPM.cgarges wrote:I can think of many examples of stuff that's got great energy at slower tempos. Stone Temple Pilots are killer at this. So is Neurosis. The Bad Plus. There are plenty of examples.
Plus, don't forget the magic that happens when you get the exact right mic and placement. That can really propel the song! Guess that's really bad advice if you're in mixing already. As far as mixing goes you can try using an exciter to add upper harmonics. BUT PLEASE use it judiciously! It obviously won't get people playing better, but if the performance was good and the tracking thereof was blah, an exciter can help in a pinch, coupled with some carefully placed delays. Short, tight delays based on dotted 1/8ths can really help liven things up.
Or, just fix it in the master
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LazarusLong
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cgarges
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I happen to love Scott Weiland's work with STP. I think he was really under-utilized on those first two records, which are the ones most people heard. That third record is a mind fuck if you tend to associate those guys with the "Seattle Sound" of the period. I can't tell you the number of times I've had Tiny Music on at the studio and people have asked who it is, only to be completely and totally surprised that it's STP. It's like their Pet Sounds. The records after that were okay (I think No. 4 is pretty good, even if it's just past the pinnicle of Brendan O'Brien's experimentations with "blown up" sounds), but Tiny Music is a fucking phenomenal album-- phenomenally-played, phenomenally-sang, phenomenally-produced, and phenomenally-recorded.AstroDan wrote:Before I read Chris' post I was thinking "there's no way I'm mentioning STP here on Tape Op." They were the first example I was thinking of.
Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC
To weigh in on STP, for me, they were always kinda like Bush - a "guilty pleasure."
In their heyday I was kind of active in the Chicago scene - we had Urge Overkill, Smashing Pumpkins, Rapeman, Liz Phair, Ministry, 11th Dream Day, Red Red Meat, et al., around that time, and definite opinions of what was authentic and cool.
As for out of town stuff, SY and Dino,Jr., Nirvana, Pixies, etc. ruled. We could tolerate Pearl Jam and AIC, but the cool folk said that STP and Bush were "corporate grunge." I think I was even comp'd at a Bush show (Double Door) and didn't go ...
Other than on the radio, I can't say I even really listened to those bands until the late '90's - after Albini did that Bush record (the first I listened to, because it was him recording it), altho' that had a lot to do with my taste changing, also.
Now I think there's some good stuff there, and some great production.
In their heyday I was kind of active in the Chicago scene - we had Urge Overkill, Smashing Pumpkins, Rapeman, Liz Phair, Ministry, 11th Dream Day, Red Red Meat, et al., around that time, and definite opinions of what was authentic and cool.
As for out of town stuff, SY and Dino,Jr., Nirvana, Pixies, etc. ruled. We could tolerate Pearl Jam and AIC, but the cool folk said that STP and Bush were "corporate grunge." I think I was even comp'd at a Bush show (Double Door) and didn't go ...
Other than on the radio, I can't say I even really listened to those bands until the late '90's - after Albini did that Bush record (the first I listened to, because it was him recording it), altho' that had a lot to do with my taste changing, also.
Now I think there's some good stuff there, and some great production.
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Dakota
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Re: Adding Energy To Songs / Recordings
Coffee? Ginseng? Trucker's Friend?baskervils wrote:adding "guts" and "energy" ?
Rare Steak? Sushi? P?t
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