Anyone seen the Radial ad in the new TapeOp issue?

[Beneficial]

It shows all of their reamp/di boxes... pretty much shows all of their products and there is also a small cool looking tape machine in the ad. For a split second I thought my wish had finally been granted... a newly manufactured, small, relatively inexpensive tape machine for sale! Then my dreams were crushed when I realized they probably just photoshopped in a tape machine since the ad was in TapOp. Man I wish a company would just find a Chinese manufacturer that could start manufacturing a new model tape machine. I love my JH110c but have spent 4 years and a lot of money trying to get it working right and still no luck. Anyway, just thought it was weird that Radial would have a tape machine in the ad the way they did.

[jgimbel]

I thought the same thing and was just as disappointed. The model of the recorder almost looks like it could be something made now, pretty small and simple, like a lot of gear that's out now. Having the description right next to it makes it especially misleading, when you read "JDI passive Jensen DI". Heartbreak. Never been so disappointed when reading about a DI, haha.

[Dakota]

A speculation about cultural trends leading to economic trends...

Music-listening hipsters eventually created enough demand for vinyl (and home turntables) to be revived from the dead. Not at the previous economic scale, but enough to make it worth getting manufacturing started again on a new, small, and sensible scale.

There is much less big-budget recording than there used to be... but much more micro home-brew recording than there has ever been. "Why can't I get things to sound like my favorite 60's/70's records?" is one of the most asked questions by newly learning recordists. Of course there's many answers to that, but the sonic textural footprint of tape is one of the missing variables.

Enough continuing cultural push in that direction might spark a modest revival in new tape machine manufacture.

[Beneficial]

There was a pretty intense thread about this over at the gearslutz forum: http://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much- ... rders.html

Some people argue that the demand isn't there and that it would cost too much too make a new tape deck. I disagree with both points. People are willing to spend $3,000 on an Anamod box to try to get their music to sound like it was recorded to tape. With Chinese manufacturing and advances in electronics a company should be able to sell a small modern tape machine for around $3,000. I feel there are a lot of people who would go for it and I think it's just a matter of time before it happens. If the right company jumps on the opportunity they will do well with it.

[suppositron]

Maybe Digidesign will put one out.

No, really, that would be cool if a new cheap tape machine came out. I would probably buy one. But then, if I was a little more serious about recording to tape I would probably buy a used machine. They are out there.

Someday.

[chris harris]

Some people argue that the demand isn't there and that it would cost too much too make a new tape deck. I disagree with both points. People are willing to spend $3,000 on an Anamod box to try to get their music to sound like it was recorded to tape. With Chinese manufacturing and advances in electronics a company should be able to sell a small modern tape machine for around $3,000. I feel there are a lot of people who would go for it and I think it's just a matter of time before it happens. If the right company jumps on the opportunity they will do well with it.

I disagree. If the people spending $3000 for an Anamod were interested in the maintenance and upkeep of using a tape machine, there are plenty of AMAZING tape machines, in practically new condition, that can be had for $3000. The existence and popularity of something like the Anamod box, doesn't really say anything about the real market for tape machines.

The declining value of used tape machines, even those in pristine condition, says more about the real market of people who are ACTUALLY INTERESTED IN USING tape machines.

There's a huge market of people who want the SOUND of tape. But, the market of people who want to actually use a tape machine just keeps getting smaller and smaller.

All of you people out there who would like to see a new tape machine are aware that there are TONS of great tape machines available at outrageously low prices, RIGHT NOW, right?

[Beneficial]

The thing is, if you get a tape machine that was built in the late 70's you will have to deal with things breaking, hiring expensive techs, things breaking again, more maintenance etc. That's pretty much the only reason I'd want to buy a new one. I love my Sony JH110c, but have spent 4 years and a lot of money trying to get it running right and it's still not 100%... and it's a massive beast. I think one of the main reasons people don't want to deal with tape these days is the maintenance issues which wouldn't be nearly as much of a hassle with a newly made machine.

[T-rex]

I kind of agree with Sub. I think people want the sound of tape, even if they don't know what that is, but don't want the hassle of working with tape. Even people who love the linear workflow of tape seem to still buy Radar and HD24's. Plus tape is expensive, while I would love a new low cost machine, the tape is still going to be expensive.

Now on the other hand, a smaller good quality (notice i said "good" - like the ipod of tape decks) new tape deck would possibly have a market for home/project studios. Yes there are tons of great older consoles you can have for $7,000, but they still sell a bunch of brand new Toft 32s. A new tape deck could have tons of features that the older ones don't have; digitally controlled electronics for better punch ins and outs, usb or wordclock hook up (or whatever) to sync to a DAW. Smaller size would allow people to use it in home studios with limied space and still have 24 tracks, etc.

We need a prosumer Tape Deck!

[Beneficial]

Now on the other hand, a smaller good quality (notice i said "good" - like the ipod of tape decks) new tape deck would possibly have a market for home/project studios. Yes there are tons of great older consoles you can have for $7,000, but they still sell a bunch of brand new Toft 32s. A new tape deck could have tons of features that the older ones don't have; digitally controlled electronics for better punch ins and outs, usb or wordclock hook up (or whatever) to sync to a DAW. Smaller size would allow people to use it in home studios with limied space and still have 24 tracks, etc.

We need a prosumer Tape Deck!

Yeah those are some good points. Something smaller and more stable. I'd personally only need a 2 track for my work flow and would be dumping stuff back and forth... tape to daw. I buy ATR tape from Mike Spitz at $55/reel and it's ridiculously great quality... sounds amazing. I can re-use it over and over again with minimal degradation too.

[chris harris]

For $3000 you can get a 1/2" 2 track mixdown deck in VERY VERY GOOD CONDITION. I'm guessing that you paid much less than that for the MCI that's given you so much trouble. I paid close to $2000 for my 1/2" JH-110B and a head relap. It's no more trouble to use than a new machine would be. But, I still have to align it, clean it, thread the tape, etc... Again, I stand by the fact that plenty of mixdown decks can be had in near perfect condition for less than $3000, yet plenty of people still opt for the "less-hassle" option of tape-less tools that purport to recreate the sound of tape.

I think that the number of people who SAY that they would like to buy a new tape machine is probably much higher than the number of people who would actually pull the trigger and do it.

[T-rex]

I think that the number of people who SAY that they would like to buy a new tape machine is probably much higher than the number of people who would actually pull the trigger and do it.

I totally agree with that.

If I had the room I would buy a 2" 16 track in a heartbeat, the prices are crazy low right now and still dropping. But I do think that there is a market of people doing this as a hobby or in their basements that would want to get into tape but can't afford a tech and are scared of buying old electronics because they don't have the knowledge or money necesary to work on them. A two track machine seems like a no brainer.

Of course all of this assumes a cheaper newer alternative which would most likely have price compromised circuitry. The electronics in those old beasts are a huge part of the sound, not just the tape itself.

To the original poster, I would probably suck it up moneywise and have the machine completely redone or buy another that has been redone. Once you have it properly refurbed by a professional, you should get years and years of service out of it.

[calaverasgrandes]

speaking as a digital heretic, I would love to get a new tape deck if
A: it had a serious analog signal path, no IC op amps.
B: it had kickass transport functions controlled by IC logic with RTZ, a few locate points, autoshuttle etc.
C: there were magically more tape manufacturers and tape comes down in price. Kind of like what has happened with tubes in the last 10 years.

[Beneficial]

To the original poster, I would probably suck it up moneywise and have the machine completely redone or buy another that has been redone. Once you have it properly refurbed by a professional, you should get years and years of service out of it.

Yeah I've had a hell of a time with mine. Bought it for $300... Sony JH110c 2 track. Searched long and hard for a good tech in Atlanta... couldn't really find one. Had one tech come out and try to work on the machine for about 12 hours before giving up and leaving without charging me... he couldn't figure out that the machine could open up by lifting the top plate. He tried for hours to work on the machine from underneath it... pretty much equivalent to not knowing you can pop the hood of a car to work on it. I finally found another tech who worked on it for a day... didn't really do much to it. He just removed one unnecessary capacitor from the power supply and then calibrated/aligned the machine (and did it wrong at that). His company billed me $1300 for everything. The machine still didn't work right so I bought the manual and spent countless hours learning everything and calibrating everything... got it running ok but it still had issues. Pulled out all of the cards and shipped them out to california for Jim Williams to mod... which wasn't cheap and I was terrified UPS would lose them and I'd be screwed. Got the cards back and the machine would self oscillate at 25hz and had other weird errors that made it unusable. Sent the cards back to california... got them back again. Now there is bleed through of the input signal when in repro mode. This makes it almost impossible to properly calibrate.

When I can get it to work decently... I get by far the best sounds I've ever recorded... I mean it's magical. But man, what a nightmare/headache it's been. I'm supposed to ship these cards back to california for a 3rd mod/fix but I'm not sure what I should do at this point. I might ship them up to Randy Blevins instead but I'm afraid the machine might have more issues than just the audio cards. Anyway, I would love to buy a newly made machine.

[casey campbell]

Some people argue that the demand isn't there and that it would cost too much too make a new tape deck. I disagree with both points. People are willing to spend $3,000 on an Anamod box to try to get their music to sound like it was recorded to tape. With Chinese manufacturing and advances in electronics a company should be able to sell a small modern tape machine for around $3,000. I feel there are a lot of people who would go for it and I think it's just a matter of time before it happens. If the right company jumps on the opportunity they will do well with it.

I disagree. If the people spending $3000 for an Anamod were interested in the maintenance and upkeep of using a tape machine, there are plenty of AMAZING tape machines, in practically new condition, that can be had for $3000. The existence and popularity of something like the Anamod box, doesn't really say anything about the real market for tape machines.

The declining value of used tape machines, even those in pristine condition, says more about the real market of people who are ACTUALLY INTERESTED IN USING tape machines.

There's a huge market of people who want the SOUND of tape. But, the market of people who want to actually use a tape machine just keeps getting smaller and smaller.

All of you people out there who would like to see a new tape machine are aware that there are TONS of great tape machines available at outrageously low prices, RIGHT NOW, right?

yeah, how many of us have actually bought a $3,000 anamod box? ha ha

[trodden]

*just got a 1" 16-track for free*