BMI, ASCAP fees = lose my gig

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b3groover
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Post by b3groover » Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:00 pm

This is all hypothetical since it is a fact that ASCAP et al do not give a shit about the little guy.

My point in arguing stemmed from the idea that musicians should waive their royalty rights in order to get or keep a gig. Why is it always the musicians that have to make concessions? Everybody makes money in this business except the musicians.
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Marc Alan Goodman
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Post by Marc Alan Goodman » Fri Jan 22, 2010 12:07 am

kweis7 wrote:Having more nights of music multiplies the fees so it doesn't get cheaper to have more nights of music.
I'm pretty damn sure that's not true. The performing rights organizations do scale their fees on number of projected listeners. However I find it hard to believe that they're fighting over some restaurant playing music one or two days a week. It's normally just a standard blanket fee for the year.

Who's passing this information on to you? It seems to me like somebody is full of shit. Either the BMI & ASCAP guys or the owner, and I don't see why the owner would do it.

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Post by roscoenyc » Fri Jan 22, 2010 5:48 am

Marc Alan Goodman wrote:
kweis7 wrote:Having more nights of music multiplies the fees so it doesn't get cheaper to have more nights of music.
I'm pretty damn sure that's not true. The performing rights organizations do scale their fees on number of projected listeners. However I find it hard to believe that they're fighting over some restaurant playing music one or two days a week. It's normally just a standard blanket fee for the year.

Who's passing this information on to you? It seems to me like somebody is full of shit. Either the BMI & ASCAP guys or the owner, and I don't see why the owner would do it.

You can go to BMI's site and download their venue License to look at it. The smallest Venue license they have is based on a 250 person capacity room. Not based on attendance. It is based on how many nights of music average per month, not how many bands. No tracking of what music gets played or attendance. A club at 250 person capacity with 5 bands per night charging $10 per head pays the same as a coffee joint with a chick on a stool in the corner doing a pass the hat gig.


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also, remember to multiply the BMI fees by 3 to include ASCAP and SESAC

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Post by ubertar » Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 am

Gentleman Jim wrote:What you're misunderstanding is that the payments are for two different things. The musician gets paid for playing an instrument, the composer gets paid for the composition being performed. It's not double dipping.

As for the idea of a club "cutting out the middleman" and paying the artist directly, let's make some false assumptions in the interest of argument. Let's assume that payments made by clubs to ASCAP, BMI, and SESAC actually went to the songwriters whose songs were performed. Even then, how would one break from the system and administer songwriter's performance royalties on the spot? That would be unwieldy, to say the least. It would be so much paperwork that it wouldn't make any sense.
That's why we're talking about clubs that don't pay agency fees because they don't allow cover songs. That way, there's nothing to figure out-- all performers in that venue are the songwriters. Sure, in a band situation where one person is the songwriter, that's not exactly the case, but that can be worked out within the band. I agree that it's not double-dipping in the case where they do pay agency fees, and you're registered with said agency-- in that case, you're entitled to your share. But don't hold your breath waiting to collect. Only the "big boys" eat from that pie. The rest of us benefit from a "no covers, no fees" policy, because it eliminates competition from cover bands. The club then is paying you for the performance and the songwriting.

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Post by Marc Alan Goodman » Fri Jan 22, 2010 8:58 am

roscoenyc wrote:You can go to BMI's site and download their venue License to look at it. The smallest Venue license they have is based on a 250 person capacity room. Not based on attendance. It is based on how many nights of music average per month, not how many bands. No tracking of what music gets played or attendance. A club at 250 person capacity with 5 bands per night charging $10 per head pays the same as a coffee joint with a chick on a stool in the corner doing a pass the hat gig.


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also, remember to multiply the BMI fees by 3 to include ASCAP and SESAC
Exactly. It sounds like somebody is getting hoodwinked.

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