Which is better: OK mic + Great pre / Great mic + OK pre

[jacobwolkenhauer]

So, in my quest to upgrade my very basic home studio, I've got about a million things I want to buy, and I certainly don't have the money to buy more than a couple. And at that, only one of them will probably be any good. Most of my (computer-based) recording is solo / duo acousticish stuff.

Without getting too gear-specific, which of these two approaches do you guys recommend?

A.) $500 mic w/ a $1500 mic pre,
B.) $1500 mic w/ a $500 mic pre, or
C.) Split the difference on both?

My first reaction is that if I'm going to be shelling out a large amount of money, I'd like a good chunk of it to be very long-term happy-making gear... so I'd probably rather spend a lot of money on one end of the chain, and upgrade the other half when my money tree starts bearing fruit again.

Thoughts? Thanks!

[Snarl 12/8]

Maybe a better way of thinking about it is, $2000 budget for a mic and a pre, what should I get that will be keeper gear?

If it was me, and someone stuck a gun in my ear and told me to spend $2000 on a mic and pre, I'd get a start on my 500 series lunchbox, with a 512 ish pre and get either a 4033 or a 414, if I could afford it.

[The Scum]

My initial gut reaction is to go with a cheap mic and better preamps. I still routinely record SM57s, MD421s and the like through various fancy preamps. My lesser pres just don't get involved as much now that they've been superceded.

But I'm a rock and roll guy - cheap dynamic mics into slightly hairy preamps suits that well.

For solo acoustic stuff, I might swing the other way, or at least split the difference...I'd be tempted to get a decent stereo pair of mics, with some not-garbage preamps. Learning to do good stereo work was very beneficial, but it means that you need to buy two of everything...

[rty5150]

with $2k, you could definitely split the difference and have one hell of a great front end chain.

what to choose then comes down to style and purpose.


rich

[ott0bot]

I agree with snarl, think of it as a budget and only buy gear that will be useful in the long wrong. Don't waste your money on cheap chinese ldc's, or budget "tube" preamps that claim to make your acoustic guitar sound like a Neal Young recording for a fraction on the price. If you want to strech your budget, buy used and search message boards, ebay and craigslist. Times are tough and there are deals to be had right now.

What do you have for your current setup? What mic's, interface, etc.

Without knowing this I'll make some blind recomendations.

I do alot of acoustic recording, and i've found the most helpful items to be the following:

Mic's-
-A nice pair Stereo pair of sdc mics with several capsules. I've tried many, and I really like my pair of Octava mc012's that have been modded by Michael Joly. For xy set up's, spot micing, and omni room micing these do the trick. I've also had good luck with AKG 451's, and there are many other options.

-An LDC with mulitple polar patters. I currently use an M-Audio sputnik, and use my friends Audio Technica 4050. The 4050 doesn't have a ton of mojo, but it's super versitle and sounds good on almost anything. Great for vocals, room micing or a nice full bodied acoustic guitar.

-A large diaphram dynamic such as an Electro Voice re20 or a Shure SM7. This gives you some variety when micing the guitars and vocals. In general they more dependent on the pre amp, and I've found if you need reductions in sibilance or want to tame some high frequencies these do the trick.

Preamp's-
-One of my best investments was a pair of Summit Audio 2ba-221's. There are super versitile, sound great on everythng. They have a tube saturation output that can make things nice and warm, plus can be sterile if needed. the di is really good on them too.

-If i could buy another mic pre now I'd buy the Great River 2NV. Guy in my band has one, and it's truly a great preamp. Amazing on stereo pairs on acoustic guitars and sounds great on nearly everything else.

There are so many other choices, and as suggested a 500 series box would be a great early investment too.

Compressor-
I really suggest getting a outboard compresser to track with some light compression if needed and to improve your mix when you're done tracking.

I first bought a FMR RNC/RNLA rack with gives me 4 channels of compression, and I still use these. The rnc sounds great on acoustic guitar and vocals. Super transparent, and great on high frequency sources. Plus it's cheap and will always be useable.

I upgraded to a pair on Summit Audio TLA-50's and I love them. Great on a mix, on vocals, guitars, and bass. They are really solid musical compressers.

These are just a few suggestions, and even thought there is a ton of other gear out there, I keep going back to these items whenever I track acoustic guitar and vocals. I'm not a professional and I work at home, but I have interened in real studios and when the micing was left to me I've suggested these items when available with great results. Hope that helps.

[JES]

I guess I'm just echoing others in the thread. I started out with some prosumer stuff I never use anymore (including the RNC, actually). Invest in stuff that you won't outgrow or that is quirky enough to always have a use (I still use my dbx 119). I'm totally happy with a GR500NV in a lunchbox and routinely use good but basic mics-- SM57, SM7 and KSM32 are my go-to mics for what I do (not sure how that happened, I have no loyalty to the Shure corporation), but a single good pre improves ALL your mics and the DI can help too.

Used lunchboxes are going cheap nowadays, as are good used mics (like Soundelux).

But of course if you're recording voice and acoustic guitar, get something nice and clean sounding (cheaper as there are no transformers--Grace Audio, Sytek, etc) and a couple good mics that work with your voice and your instrument.

After a good mic and pre comes a compressor, but you can wait on that.

[bannerj]

find a UA 2108 somewhere. They don't make them anymore but you might find one used. I got mine for $1100. Two channels of really solid, great pre.

Then you can get a 414 with the rest. I think I got my 414 for $700?

If I had to choose though, I go with the better pre and then a couple of the no brainer cheaper mics...a 57 or two, an SM7 even, a couple oktava mc012s.

[losthighway]

There are a lot of really good mics for $500. I might add that trying to create the single perfect channel/signal path is weird, unless you're often recording one mono source at a time and don't care for any ambient mic'ing. You kind of need a palette of things to make a great recording, which gauging your proposed $2,000 investment, is something that's on your mind.

That said, an affordable mic paired with a class A preamp sounds great. Plenty of great sounding vocal tracks have been recorded with an RE20, SM7, AT4050, AT4047, Groove Tubes MD1.

[JES]

There are a lot of really good mics for $500. I might add that trying to create the single perfect channel/signal path is weird, unless you're often recording one mono source at a time and don't care for any ambient mic'ing. You kind of need a palette of things to make a great recording, which gauging your proposed $2,000 investment, is something that's on your mind.

That said, an affordable mic paired with a class A preamp sounds great. Plenty of great sounding vocal tracks have been recorded with an RE20, SM7, AT4050, AT4047, Groove Tubes MD1.

The whole "flavors" thing is great, but lots of awesome records have also been recorded on a single desk. If you never do more than 1-2 channels at a time, a couple good pres that are themselves a little flexible will probably be fine (A Designs, Great River, etc., depending on what you like).

[losthighway]

There are a lot of really good mics for $500. I might add that trying to create the single perfect channel/signal path is weird, unless you're often recording one mono source at a time and don't care for any ambient mic'ing. You kind of need a palette of things to make a great recording, which gauging your proposed $2,000 investment, is something that's on your mind.

That said, an affordable mic paired with a class A preamp sounds great. Plenty of great sounding vocal tracks have been recorded with an RE20, SM7, AT4050, AT4047, Groove Tubes MD1.

The whole "flavors" thing is great, but lots of awesome records have also been recorded on a single desk. If you never do more than 1-2 channels at a time, a couple good pres that are themselves a little flexible will probably be fine (A Designs, Great River, etc., depending on what you like).

I'm an advocate for the "flavors" idea, but that's not really essential to making a successful recording. What I was thinking of was just the amount of mics and channels you end up wanting to use when you get serious about recording. Sure if you like your acoustic guitar with one mic only, and then overdub the vocals, you could probably spend two grand on one mic and one pre.

But as soon as you're interested in doing both at the same time, and having more than one mic on the guitar, or god forbid a drum set, or any other musical situation having one sexy channel won't really do it. In other words I can do a better drum recording with a Sytek, a couple of audio technica condensers and a couple Shure, or Sennheiser dynamics (or comparable) then I can with a single racked Neve and a Neumann CMV563.

Not that, you couldn't do something cool with above setup. I guess what I'm getting at is if you're interested in spending two thousand dollars on recording equipment, you seem to be committing more than someone who just needs a mic to record some demos of song ideas. But maybe I over thought the question

[JES]

But maybe I over thought the question

That's what a recording BBS is for, isn't it?

[dino]

I saw an ad somewhere recently, for a packaged price for a Bock 195 and a Daking Mic Pre One. Seemed like a great deal. You should look into it.
dino

[thegeek]

Get a Rode NT 2 or an NT 2A (around $500), a pair of Rode NT5s or a Rode NT4 (around $500) and then get a 2 Channel API clone from www.regularjohnrecording.com/ (around $750) and you'll still have $250 left over.

That's a solid setup there.

[kayagum]

If you don't have a well-treated room, I wouldn't really start with sensitive condenser mikes, cheap or expensive. Solid dynamics + good preamp = great setup.

Other preamps for consideration: BLA Auteur, Hamptone (either)

[thegeek]

I've heard amazing things about the BLA Auteur.