Low budget outboard EQs worth it over just using plugins?

[jgimbel]

I've UTFSF and googled my ass off and I have a feeling this might involve those not-so-obvious pieces of gear, maybe something older/used. I'm really dying for an outboard single or possibly dual channel EQ. I use the high pass on my preamps/mics a lot, but I'd like some more versatility. I've got some plugins I like but I'd really love something physical, plus sometimes I record with just a Portastudio.

I, like probably many of you, haven't had a whole lot of happiness with Behringer/Nady/other super low end brands. This is more of a "looking for something to save up a bit for" as opposed to "i need to get something ASAP, here's my budget". I'd even be up for a DIY project if there's something that sounds great, might cut some of the cost, and doesn't take an engineering degree. I love soldering and I'm good at following directions.

Parametric would be cool, but I'm not particular. I wish there were more options like the Presonus EQ3b, which itself doesn't seem too great but looks along the right kind of lines.

[Scodiddly]

ITB EQ is pretty good these days, but if you want to twiddle knobs that's OK too.

How about looking for older workhorse EQs... not the fancy name stuff that's been replicated in plugins, but names like Ashly, Audioarts, Furman, White, etc.

[jgimbel]

Yeah see that's what I need, names of some brands like that. I've heard of Ashly but nothing specific, and I'm not sure I knew Furman made anything but power conditioners. Thanks! Any specific units stand out versus others? Time for me to do a lot of research but if there's anything worthwhile that might not be obvious that'd be great to hear too!

[kingmetal]

What about a compromise? I bought a LiquidMix 16 late last year and it has really improved my workflow. Lots of great EQs in it and real knobs to twiddle.

[jgimbel]

Kingmetal, I have to say I was pretty impressed when you made the post about the ridiculous amount of gear that thing tries to emulate (that was you, right?). I do use my Faderport all the time and it definitely eases my issues with working ITB, but the LiquidMix wouldn't work when I'm doing things completely OTB.

Call me crazy but even with ITB lately I've been trying to do as little work..ITB..as possible. Even volume changes, I've been trying to do the whole decent-mix-when-faders-are-at-0 thing. I'm not really someone to say "I don't like how volume changes sound ITB, too harsh", as I'm a lover of the convenience and very used to working hard to get a good feel, but I guess the clicking is really wearing on me. EQ is something I do completely ITB since I don't have anything outboard. Definitely looking to change that.

[Sean Sullivan]

I've been wanting to pick up a Aphex 9000 series rack and stuff it full of 9901A EQs. I like those and once you have the rack they are only $100-$150. You can also get the 9651 Expressor modules, those are one of my favorite compressors.

I want to try the Aphex 109's, those are cheap as dirt these days. However, I never liked the idea of "tubessense" thing, but I think it might be easy to install a bypass switch or something.

[Z-Plane]

Cheap EQs can still perform well when it comes to EQ cuts, but most plugs will perform this duty with the same competence. On the other hand, try adding 12db of mids and tops to your lead vocal, that's when you realise "budget" is no longer your friend!

[jgimbel]

Cheap EQs can still perform well when it comes to EQ cuts, but most plugs will perform this duty with the same competence. On the other hand, try adding 12db of mids and tops to your lead vocal, that's when you realise "budget" is no longer your friend!

Yeah, ain't that the truth. I rarely do boosts at all. Hipasses are really useful for things that can't be fixed with mic placement, but for things that would take boosting I usually rely on mic placement alone. It helps that I'm recording mostly my own stuff where my goal is to make things sound really natural. It's amazing how quickly an ITB boost degrades. The whole "boost wide, cut narrow" thing is 100% true when working digitally. One thing I do find it really useful for is finding exactly where I want to cut. If I hear that something's off but I'm having trouble picking exactly the right frequencies, I'll put on an eq at a really narrow Q at like 12dB and sweep it around. The offending frequency jumps out. I mean it all sounds awful, but when you hit that one, man. Then I'll widen the Q a bit (depending on the application of course) and pull it down a few dB below flat. That tends to be the way I do most of my EQ. With low cuts ITB I pull the dB all the way off, then sweep the frequency slowly upward until I start losing frequencies I want in there. Then back it down a bit, and pull the dB back up to where it's right. Makes quick work when you can get lost in EQ.

[route-electrique]

Checkout Speck also.

[ofajen]

I want to try the Aphex 109's, those are cheap as dirt these days. However, I never liked the idea of "tubessense" thing, but I think it might be easy to install a bypass switch or something.

Luckily, the electrons don't care what the box is called, and the tube thing does no apparent harm. I have one and it works fine. I like the flexibility of a mono 4-band or two channel 2-band. A lot of the time I only need one or two bands to do something on the low or high end or both.

Cheers,

Otto

[djimbe]

How about looking for older workhorse EQs... not the fancy name stuff that's been replicated in plugins, but names like Ashly, Audioarts, Furman, White, etc.

Yeah, if want "budget" EQ this is maybe a good route, rather than new. Besides the ones in Scodiddly's list you might also look at Orban gear, and Wheatstone (which might have been the parent of Audioarts? There's a connnection IIRC).

[kingmetal]

Kingmetal, I have to say I was pretty impressed when you made the post about the ridiculous amount of gear that thing tries to emulate (that was you, right?). I do use my Faderport all the time and it definitely eases my issues with working ITB, but the LiquidMix wouldn't work when I'm doing things completely OTB.

Call me crazy but even with ITB lately I've been trying to do as little work..ITB..as possible. Even volume changes, I've been trying to do the whole decent-mix-when-faders-are-at-0 thing. I'm not really someone to say "I don't like how volume changes sound ITB, too harsh", as I'm a lover of the convenience and very used to working hard to get a good feel, but I guess the clicking is really wearing on me. EQ is something I do completely ITB since I don't have anything outboard. Definitely looking to change that.

I totally agree with you and my workflow has been a weird OTB zero-editing type of thing for the last year or so, but for me the Liquidmix keeps in line with that. I touch real knobs, see real meters for the compressors and generally feel a lot more in control than I ever.

But you're right, it's still technically ITB. I have to look at my screen to get my bearings with the LM16 because it doesn't have its own screen (the Liquidmix proper has as screen and whatnot), but the LM16 interface is so ugly and hard to process I just end up using my ears (although the curve display is handy when you need to quickly see what crazy shit you tried to pull the night before when you were too sleep deprived to really hear anything).

It's totally a compromise, but for me it was the right compromise. $200 barely gets you a decent stand alone stereo EQ these days, let alone 16.

But you can't track to tape and hell if I can get the latency on the thing low enough to process in realtime. Not dealbreakers for me (although not being able to compress to tape sort of sucks!) but your mileage may vary.

Yeah I put the list of compressors in the LM16 up. I was hoping for more of a discussion there but I guess that one has been done to death!

[newfuturevintage]

furman pq3 / pq6 (stereo pq3). Noisy EQ, but also does nice double duty as an instrument preamp. Have recorded a lot of DI bass tracks I'm happy with using the pq3 as the front end.

[E.Bennett]

if you can find one, the ashly sc-60 (not to be confused with the sc66 or sc63, which are also cool for short money) is a great eq that can be had on the cheap. it's transformer balanced in and out, 6 band fully parametric and has a large blue vu meter that can be switched to read the pre input, post input, pre output or post output signal.

[jgimbel]

Ah the sc-60 sounds perfect, if I could find one. I had a hard time even finding a picture of one. None on ebay right now, though that doesn't necessarily mean they won't come up. Just not as easy as when there are a number of something listed and it's just a matter of watching the prices. I'll have to see how much they go for as I'm not finding any kind of info there. And jesus, that's a crazy amount of meter options, nice.

The furman looks great too, and there are a couple on ebay. I can't say it's comforting seeing Dimebag Darrel's name all over it, haha. Not that there was anything wrong with him, great guy, just surprising when looking at a parametric EQ! They seem to be going for around $200, which is pretty reasonable once I get the cash.

Paia has a DIY parametric EQ, and the one mention I heard of it was good. It's $94 for the kit, plus $26 for a faceplate and $41 for the power supply, so that's really cheap, but I'm not sure if I'm skilled enough to do a project like that yet.