Mobile PT Rig Opinions?

Recording Techniques, People Skills, Gear, Recording Spaces, Computers, and DIY

Moderators: drumsound, tomb

kslight
mixes from purgatory
Posts: 2968
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 7:40 pm

Mobile PT Rig Opinions?

Post by kslight » Sun Jan 24, 2010 7:27 am

What is a better deal...I want at least 16 I/o


003R with BLA mods (which mod..regular or signature?)


Or

002R with BLA mods

or


Some kind of used Mix Plus system? What configuration recommended (probably not going to use the Digi converters.. I will want AES or ADAT...maybe plug in an old Apogee AD 8000)


Thanks

Gentleman Jim
buyin' a studio
Posts: 980
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2006 10:38 am

Post by Gentleman Jim » Sun Jan 24, 2010 1:07 pm

I'll be the first to check in with a sort of annoying "None Of The Above" answer.

If you're not planning on using Digi's converters, then don't be confined by using Pro Tools for the recording stage. Go with Reaper, Studio One, Garageband, or any other inexpensive DAW and then import the .WAV's into Pro Tools when you get to editing/mixing.

That way you won't be limited to 18 tracks and you won't be buying into a version of software as it's riding off into the sunset.

User avatar
Marc Alan Goodman
george martin
Posts: 1399
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2003 7:57 pm
Location: NYC
Contact:

Post by Marc Alan Goodman » Sun Jan 24, 2010 1:33 pm

Word. Unless you're planning on mixing or doing intense editing on the same rig you don't have to bother with PT. I had a mobile rig for a long time that was a 002R with a Lucid 8824 for 16 channels. Worked great but it was a ton of extra crap to carry around when you factor in all the pres and mics and the computer (which was a desktop) etc etc. It wasn't that mobile. But it worked great once I got it there.

Although if you really wanted to use PT you could always get a M-audio dual lightpipe interface and just a pair of octopres with lightpipe out or the mackie onyx 8 channel pre (which apparently actually sounds pretty good). 3 rack spaces. 16 I/O, 16 mic pres. Probably under 2 grand including PT software if you buy used. I think that's what I'd probably do if I was trying to build another one on the relatively cheap.

kslight
mixes from purgatory
Posts: 2968
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 7:40 pm

Post by kslight » Sun Jan 24, 2010 1:54 pm

I'll be the first to check in with a sort of annoying "None Of The Above" answer.

If you're not planning on using Digi's converters, then don't be confined by using Pro Tools for the recording stage. Go with Reaper, Studio One, Garageband, or any other inexpensive DAW and then import the .WAV's into Pro Tools when you get to editing/mixing.

That way you won't be limited to 18 tracks and you won't be buying into a version of software as it's riding off into the sunset.
Well I already use and know my way completely inside and out with Pro Tools (M-Powered) which is why I thought I'd want to keep using it. This "mobile" rig would be my main rig for awhile. That said, I'm not Digi-biased or anything, but I know I don't like Cubase, I don't have a Mac so there goes Logic...and I guess I've never spent any time with Ableton or Reaper.

I currently use an M-Audio FW1814...which I'm not really thrilled with by any stretch of the imagination... I am wanting to get away from "prosumer" type gear, while still maintaining some kind of budget. If I got something that wasn't Digi-compatible then I'd probably keep this for M-Powered editing/mixing.

18 I/O is not really a big limitation for my intentions...unless I wanted to take a 24 track tape dump or something..

Word. Unless you're planning on mixing or doing intense editing on the same rig you don't have to bother with PT. I had a mobile rig for a long time that was a 002R with a Lucid 8824 for 16 channels. Worked great but it was a ton of extra crap to carry around when you factor in all the pres and mics and the computer (which was a desktop) etc etc. It wasn't that mobile. But it worked great once I got it there.

Although if you really wanted to use PT you could always get a M-audio dual lightpipe interface and just a pair of octopres with lightpipe out or the mackie onyx 8 channel pre (which apparently actually sounds pretty good). 3 rack spaces. 16 I/O, 16 mic pres. Probably under 2 grand including PT software if you buy used. I think that's what I'd probably do if I was trying to build another one on the relatively cheap.
I already have a laptop that should be pretty decent for recording 16 channels...I actually bought it specifically for mobile recording but finances didn't play out for using it that way... As long as I'm not running a bunch of plugins it is fine.

I guess mobile is a relative term...I want everything to fit into my Korean car. :-) The last mobile rig I used (not my own!) was a dual G5 Pro Tools HD3 with 40 I/O worth of Apogee converters and a Big Ben... My intended setup will unfortunately have to be more modest than that! But as long as its not an enormous hassle to setup and carry I will be happy.

I do intend to have a lunchbox with good pres and EQs with this rig so I'd rather not spend more than I have to on lower end pres/gear.




Okay here's a question...003R...can you use the SPDIF AND the ADAT in or only one or the other?

kslight
mixes from purgatory
Posts: 2968
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 7:40 pm

Post by kslight » Sun Jan 24, 2010 2:16 pm

If all I really wanted was 16 I/O with limited editing capabilities the Fostex LR16 doesn't look like it'd be that bad, and its exceptionally compact (no computer required!) http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/pr ... sku=501674

That's one of the things I've been considering, but then I'm limited to whatever junk pres and converters are built in...though the price is tempting @ $1399 ($400 MIR).




Here is what I'd like to have out of my mobile rig:

1. 16 tracks I/O

2. Good quality live recording (split off of PA)

3. Good quality transfer from 2" --- 16 tracks

4. Good quality voice overs

5. Good quality multitrack recordings of bands (in their own space)

6. Reasonably deep editing capabilities (more than punch in/out)

7. Somewhat expandable/upgradable as finances allow

8. Not a complete piece of throwaway gear in 5 years



Just to clarify...5 years ago I graduated from audio school, and have done a few freelance projects, but haven't ever landed a decent audio job (sorry I can't pay my bills on an internship, though I did have one for awhile, it wasn't going anywhere and since I moved to KC I have had a hard time getting through to any of the local studios). I have a decent day job, but I want to get back into recording, and want to make a little bit of money at it, but more or less want to be able to do a decent job at recording local bands at a reasonable rate. For a long time I've been using the excuse for myself that I don't have enough gear to operate commercially on my own (which is more or less true without expanding my current setup). I don't have access to a great space (my basement is certainly finished enough for overdubs and such, but I couldn't do a whole band down here, and I would have to invest into treatment and such, and it still would never be a great space), which is why I would like to have a mobile setup...until I do have access to a great space, or can get a job in a local studio (but I have a hard time believing that any local studio would match my current salary in this economy).

Gentleman Jim
buyin' a studio
Posts: 980
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2006 10:38 am

Post by Gentleman Jim » Sun Jan 24, 2010 4:30 pm

There are three levels of Firewire interfaces which would each provide 8 channels of line level A/D and D/A, plus 16 channels of ADAT at 48K:

MOTU 828 MkIII for $750.
http://www.bswusa.com/proditem.asp?item=828MK3

RME Fireface 800 for $1700.
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Fireface800/

Apogee Rosetta 800 for $2700. (Plus $355 for the XFIREWIRE card)
http://www.bswusa.com/proditem.asp?item=ROSETTA800-192
http://www.bswusa.com/proditem.asp?item=XFIREWIRE400

I'm sure there are others, but those are your three basic tiers. You could get one of these, 16 channels of ADAT, a clock, and a power conditioner into a 5 or 6 space rack. Add your lunchbox and a laptop, and you haven't even filled the trunk of your Korean car.

Any of these will meet your first 7 requirements. Personally, I don't think any of them will be considered a "piece of throwaway gear" in 5 years, but others may disagree about the MOTU.

I don't think the 002 or 003 are beyond the level of 'prosumer.' That's not to say that they can't be used for good recordings, but if you've set the bar higher than that you should think about it. Further, if you're not going to even use their converters, I don't know why you'd bother getting the BLA mods. In short, I think if you mean what you've said, they're a huge waste of money.

It's a different direction, but there's also the Alesis ADATHD24 for $1600.
http://www.bswusa.com/proditem.asp?item=ADATHD24

kslight
mixes from purgatory
Posts: 2968
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 7:40 pm

Post by kslight » Sun Jan 24, 2010 6:36 pm

Ah I meant I wouldn't use the Digi converters off a Mix Plus rig.


If I were to get the 003R with BLA mods then I would use the converters. Obviously I couldn't get my IO requirements without using them.

User avatar
trodden
on a wing and a prayer
Posts: 5651
Joined: Wed May 07, 2003 8:21 am
Location: C-attle
Contact:

Post by trodden » Sun Jan 24, 2010 6:41 pm

I'm kinda in the same situation.. for some reason feeling the desire to upgrade from my digi 001/pt 6.3. Want to stay with protools, cannot afford an HD system, ever. Not for a portable rig though, just for my main system.

BUT, if i lose the 001, then i have to upgrade computers unless i use a mix plus/tdm system.

Maybe i should just not worry about it and continue with the 001. It does the job. BLA modded and all.

My 8 year old G4 is starting to slow down.. perhaps i should just invest in a macbook for my other computing needs and just strip down the G4 for audio only..

yeah, that may be best. but having the additional track counts would be cool, as well as some other things PT 7/8 offer.

User avatar
Marc Alan Goodman
george martin
Posts: 1399
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2003 7:57 pm
Location: NYC
Contact:

Post by Marc Alan Goodman » Sun Jan 24, 2010 7:11 pm

Okay, if you're planning to do tape transfers I would scrap the 002 or 003 idea. No matter what you'll be splitting across different converters (8 of the digi ones, 4 of which you can't turn the mic pre circuit off for!). Although for reference you can use both SPIDF and Lightpipe (hence the 18 track limit)

kslight
mixes from purgatory
Posts: 2968
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 7:40 pm

Post by kslight » Sun Jan 24, 2010 7:35 pm

Marc Alan Goodman wrote:Okay, if you're planning to do tape transfers I would scrap the 002 or 003 idea. No matter what you'll be splitting across different converters (8 of the digi ones, 4 of which you can't turn the mic pre circuit off for!). Although for reference you can use both SPIDF and Lightpipe (hence the 18 track limit)
I agree in concept, but FWIW I did this with my M Audio 1814 with decent results...2 mic pres I couldn't bypass, 6 UNbalanced ins... Not transfers for historical purposes..it was a lofi personal project. I rarely record to tape...but it is possible to do it again. If I had to I could just adjust the signal level accordingly on the board and be in business. I don't see why having a couple different converters would be a big deal if they are clocked correctly?


Good to know on the spdif and adat front though.

User avatar
Marc Alan Goodman
george martin
Posts: 1399
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2003 7:57 pm
Location: NYC
Contact:

Post by Marc Alan Goodman » Mon Jan 25, 2010 9:52 am

It's not a big deal unless it is to your clients. If they don't care or know the difference then it certainly doesn't matter! Personally I don't think I would care either.

So back to business here. The real thing we're dancing all around here is budget. What's your budget like? That kinda decides everything.

kslight
mixes from purgatory
Posts: 2968
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 7:40 pm

Post by kslight » Mon Jan 25, 2010 10:33 am

I'm almost thinking I might be expecting too much out of a BLA modded 003, maybe I should bite the bullet and get a Lynx Aurora 16. That's pushing my budget a bit for just a converter/interface, but in the long run probably a better value than buying a 003 and modding it. Five years from now the lynx will still probably be worth at least half it's retail value, while a 003 would probably be worth next to nothing (and no longer Digi supported). The Lynx would still be useful to me if I upgraded to a PT HD system in the future (which is not put of the question)...003 not so much.


My budget for my mobile setup (just for interface/converters and utility pres, not including rack, stands, cables, mics) is somewhere in the ballpark of $4000. I'm almost tempted to buy an Aurora 8 to plug into my FW1814 (ADAT) and start a lunchbox for now so at least I can do good overdubs/voiceovers and add an Aurora 16 when I've reached the limits of that setup.

User avatar
ott0bot
dead but not forgotten
Posts: 2023
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 4:54 pm
Location: Downtown Phoenix

Post by ott0bot » Mon Jan 25, 2010 11:17 am

kslight wrote:I'm almost thinking I might be expecting too much out of a BLA modded 003, maybe I should bite the bullet and get a Lynx Aurora 16. That's pushing my budget a bit for just a converter/interface, but in the long run probably a better value than buying a 003 and modding it. Five years from now the lynx will still probably be worth at least half it's retail value, while a 003 would probably be worth next to nothing (and no longer Digi supported). The Lynx would still be useful to me if I upgraded to a PT HD system in the future (which is not put of the question)...003 not so much.


My budget for my mobile setup (just for interface/converters and utility pres, not including rack, stands, cables, mics) is somewhere in the ballpark of $4000. I'm almost tempted to buy an Aurora 8 to plug into my FW1814 (ADAT) and start a lunchbox for now so at least I can do good overdubs/voiceovers and add an Aurora 16 when I've reached the limits of that setup.
I think this may be a good train of thought. The BLA upgrade is a considerable improvement. I have a stock 003 and my friend had the signature mod done on his 003, and the a/d conversion is improved and less muddy when recorded at hotter levels. The stock pre's have much more head room, and the clock is quite good and he actually slaves he other digital gear too it. However after considering having mine modded for the last few months I decided to do something similar to what your describing. Investing for the long term in really nice conversion and not limiting myself to be using Protools, and especially not PT le for foreseable future. If you have the 4000, buy used and make your budget stretch.

User avatar
LazarusLong
steve albini likes it
Posts: 308
Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 12:55 pm
Location: the cobwebs of your mind

Re: Mobile PT Rig Opinions?

Post by LazarusLong » Mon Jan 25, 2010 12:34 pm

- M-Powered
- Profire Lightbridge http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ProFireLB
- whatever pres or I/O you like

Benefits: small, simple, flexible, modular (easy to upgrade)... if you need more than 18 simultaneous ins someday, it works with any DAW

Cons: would probably benefit from a clock, so that's "just one more thing" to buy.
The truth of a proposition has nothing to do with its credibility. And vice versa.

kslight
mixes from purgatory
Posts: 2968
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 7:40 pm

Re: Mobile PT Rig Opinions?

Post by kslight » Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:37 pm

LazarusLong wrote:- M-Powered
- Profire Lightbridge http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ProFireLB
- whatever pres or I/O you like

Benefits: small, simple, flexible, modular (easy to upgrade)... if you need more than 18 simultaneous ins someday, it works with any DAW

Cons: would probably benefit from a clock, so that's "just one more thing" to buy.
,
That's what I've been thinking about if I got an Aurora 16 and still wanted to use PT... I already own M-Powered with the 1814 so I wouldn't have to buy anything else (though at some point I might have to upgrade to 8.0...still at 7.4). However I'm kind of adverse to M-Audio gear...the early stuff I bought from them was good for the money (Omni Studio w/2496 PCI card, Oxygen 8 MIDI keyboard, 2x2 MIDI USB interface), but the later stuff I've gotten has been sort of flakey (FW 1814, Radium 61) and so I'm not sure that I'd buy another M-Audio product (yes I realize that LE Digi hardware is probably made by M-Audio...).

It would also help if it would screw into a rack! What a PITA that'd be...


I think this may be a good train of thought. The BLA upgrade is a considerable improvement. I have a stock 003 and my friend had the signature mod done on his 003, and the a/d conversion is improved and less muddy when recorded at hotter levels. The stock pre's have much more head room, and the clock is quite good and he actually slaves he other digital gear too it. However after considering having mine modded for the last few months I decided to do something similar to what your describing. Investing for the long term in really nice conversion and not limiting myself to be using Protools, and especially not PT le for foreseable future. If you have the 4000, buy used and make your budget stretch.
I wish I knew someone that had one that would truly make me a believer...but even if it was a serious improvement, I have a hard time believing that $2500 later (if I bought a NEW 003R...which I probably wouldn't do, and bought the Signature mod) that I wouldn't have been better off buying an Aurora 16 for a little more and have something with lasting value that truly will grow with my needs.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 68 guests