Filling up all your tracks (or almost all) THEN mixing?

[sears]

I work on an Akai DPS16. Mixing my own stuff is never a problem because I use few tracks. (hear it below.)

I'm recording a band and sometimes am coming close to using all the tracks! I know that there are things I want to try in mixing like compressing drum overheads.

I have a couple of questions for those of you limited in your number of tracks. My unit has what's called "virtual tracks" which I've never used.

1. If I have two tracks left, can you recommend a workflow that will enable me to get some submixes going?

2. If I have used all 16 tracks, do I have any options?

[Marc Alan Goodman]

Interesting. I'm not sure exactly how that unit works, but I'm assuming you normally need two tracks to bounce down to, it won't just bounce down to a separate file? If so you could always just use all 16 tracks and then run the stereo audio out to some other recorder (line in on your computer?) to record the mix.

I'd assume the "virtual tracks" are a way to route things together in order to do things like bus compression.

Anybody have any experience with this thing?

[drumsound]

I think virtual tracks are for alternate takes. So if the vocal is on track 12, you can do a few takes on the virtual tracks associated with track 12, but only play one of them at a time.

[A.David.MacKinnon]

The way to do big production on a limited number of tracks is to plan ahead. Map it out from the beginning so you know how many parts/sources there are and where they're going to go. Lots of times that means sub mixing while tracking - ie: snare top and bottom mixed to one track, bass amp and di mixed to one track.
Of course that's not going to help you now and not knowing your machine I can't make specific technical suggestions but there are some old tricks that still work.

If you have parts that come in and out of the song and don't overlap with each other - like solos, back up vocals, percussion - put them together on one track. When it's time to mix mult that track to as many faders as you need (one fader per part) so they each have eq and level control. Use the mutes to turn each part on and off.
Sub-mix the toms to one track. You can keep them mono or break them out to 2 faders to mix (you may need to automate the mutes to deal with rolls).
If you have a mic and DI on the bass you should choose one or the other or submix both to 1 channel.
Sub mix back-up vocals.

Put solos or other short parts on another machine - 2 track reel to reel, dat, computer, whatever - when you mix route that machine to a fader, cue up the machine and hit play when the part comes around. It might take a few tries to time it right but it will work.

[sears]

Excellent, thanks. I'm not much of a planner. (I'm the OP.)

A lot of the tracks I just let the guitarist double and triple his parts. In stereo. So I can do some submixing or even eliminating there.

I can go s/pdif to a computer and then back, but I was wondering about synchronzing it back up. I guess that's the price I pay for poor planning.

[nortstudio]

I think that machine can sync with MTC. That would be the best way to get in/out of the computer in sync. Make the Akai the master and slave the computer to it (tell it to play/record starting at the time code point a few seconds before the start of the song on the Akai).

Then when you need to get back - you patch your computer outputs into the machine - still triggered by hitting play/record on Akai. You actually could do some submixing in the computer - and then bounce the submix back in, lined up using the Time Code.

[Nick Sevilla]

Excellent, thanks. I'm not much of a planner. (I'm the OP.)

A lot of the tracks I just let the guitarist double and triple his parts. In stereo. So I can do some submixing or even eliminating there.

I can go s/pdif to a computer and then back, but I was wondering about synchronzing it back up. I guess that's the price I pay for poor planning.

My secret : Listen to the "Stereo Guitar" and determine if it really IS Stereo, and also within the context of the song, if it will be the most prominent instrument.

If it is a rhythm "filler" instrument, I get rid of one mic, and use the other as a mono track, adding ambience only if needed. If it is a "solo" instrument, or plays all the way through and has a solo, I'll bring in the second mic only for the solo part, to add that dimension to the guitar. Far easier than trying different plugins to make it stand out.

Doubling and tripling parts is really a matter of need as opposed to want. Be careful of phase issues when doing this, and also realize that the more guitars, the more work you'll have getting the vocal to stand out in the mix.

Cheers

[sears]

I think that machine can sync with MTC.

Yes! I will use your technique. I use MTC to talk to an MPC all the time, so now I'll just have to get MIDI going on my computer. And a program on my computer that has MIDI and records on s/pdif and doesn't cost too much.

As you can tell, I use the computer as little as possible.

Doubling and tripling parts is really a matter of need as opposed to want. Be careful of phase issues when doing this, and also realize that the more guitars, the more work you'll have getting the vocal to stand out in the mix.

I promise I will not show this thread to the guitarist. I was planning to eliminate a lot of it anyway. We're tracking at the drummer's house which is a less than ideal monitoring environment. So I took a lot of guitar tracks to ensure something sounds good. Guitarists always think their instrument is the most important when it's really the least.

[nortstudio]

Many low cost interfaces for the computer offer spdif input. Even the original mbox did, if I recall correctly. A midi box can be had cheap as well. Sounds like you are not lookingto upgrade to that type rig - so why not bounce submixes within you Akai box when you reach 14, and then continue recording on the first 14 again. You could always use virtual tracks if you are worried about losing te originals.

If not willing to upgrade (and that is not a critique), learn to commit. It's what I used to do when I worked on a tascam 8 track. I'd record 8 tracks and them bounce to a DAT 2 track. Then back to a fresh cassette! Those were the days...

[Nick Sevilla]

I promise I will not show this thread to the guitarist. I was planning to eliminate a lot of it anyway. We're tracking at the drummer's house which is a less than ideal monitoring environment. So I took a lot of guitar tracks to ensure something sounds good. Guitarists always think their instrument is the most important when it's really the least.

Good boy. Now you're learning something. the Guitarist wil not notice the monoed guitars. Trust me on this.

In the end though, at the final mix EVERY element present is equally important, only the lead vocal is the most important. Take the time to make sure that one triangle chime sounds good and does not distract from the vocals / rhythm.

Cheers

[cgarges]

One of my favorite records I've ever done was done on one of those things. They're great machines for no-bullshit, good-sounding, simple recording.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC