Using FMR RNP with ribbon mics?

[estebanblanco]

I'm going to be recording a string ensemble that includes a percussionist and a bass clarinetist. My budget is quite limited but I do want to use a stereo ribbon mic. I'm looking at either the PPA R-2 or the Cascade X15. The question is what to use for a preamp.

My choice would be the AEA TRP but my budget will not allow this. Has anyone ever used a FMR RNP with ribbon mics? From the specs the RNP seems to have enough gain but FMR's web site says the RNP isn't the most quiet preamp in the world.

This rig will run into either my Presonus Firestudio Project or my M-Audio NRV10 mixer, ending up in Logic. I'll also be placing a section mic in front of the string section and a close mic on the bass clarinet. The room is large enough to accommodate enough space for the strings to develop good ambiance but my worry is in the preamp.

Thanks,
Steven

[hughmanatee]

it will do the trick, but I often find myself wishing I could have a little more gain with my ribbon through the RNP. I havent tried it, but I imagine that one of those gain boosters would be great.

[Marc Alan Goodman]

It's gonna be hard to find something as cheap but with a much lower noise floor than the RNP. If you want to stretch a little bit and get a 4 channel pre the Sytek always does the job. Tube pres like the Groove Tubes Brick and Electro Harmonix 12AY7 all have less overall gain and less gain till breakup.

If you can stretch it to the sytek I highly recommend it. I used it with my Coles 4038 for years happily.

[jgimbel]

There have been a few threads on here involving using external preamps with the Firestudio Project (which is what I use too), and people have said a few times that the onboard preamps are neutral up to at least 1/4 of the way up (a few people said at noon, but that was debated, so I don't want to bank on that). So you could always get your gain with the ribbon as high as you can on the RNP without getting noticeable noise, then turn the FSP gain up just a bit (actually doing the FSP first might make more sense, then adjust your RNP as if it was just naturally louder overall). This is what I do when I use a ribbon with my VTB-1, which doesn't have the greatest amount of gain, and from my experience the FSP preamps really do stay neutral at least up to that high. Like an external pre into the FSP with the gain up a bit doesn't sound any less like that pre's character than without the gain turned up at all.

If the FSP included what seems like a pretty common feature of being able to bypass the pre's, it'd be a different story.

[JWL]

Would a Grace m101 fit into your budget? It's mono, so you'd need 2 of them....

[estebanblanco]

No, the Grace would break the bank. For the price of two m101 units I could pick up the AEA TRP, which is what I'd prefer.

This project is a performance of the culmination of a mentorship project I'm part of (hint: I'm not the mentor). I was picked to be the composer protege to work with a local composer/sound designer who has int'l. recognition. The music I'm writing will be performed at the showing of all of the proteges (painters, photographers, filmmakers, etc.) and I want to make the post-production of the performance be the final bit of my work in the project.

There isn't any money involved, per se. I'm paying the musicians out of my own pocket and a friend who does audio work will be the recordist (I'd record the performance but I'll either be performing on bass or bass clarinet or simply conducting the group). I'll then sell copies of the performance to the audience to bring in a few bucks to help defray my costs. So the FMR RNP can really be a life-saver here and from what some are saying should do the trick.

If you'd like more detail on this program see <http>. John Tanner is the gentleman I'm mentoring with.

[estebanblanco]

Oops, the URL for the mentor program didn't come through. Try this...

http://www.marnonline.com/arts-resource ... entors.htm

[kayagum]

For that price, get a pair of LDC or SDC mics that are better suited for location recording than your ribbon mic.

[fuzz]

I used the RNP for some M500's a few years back. It worked for sources up close (ac gtr, VOX, toy piano), but I'd bet if you're going stereo pair in the room you'll have the gain cranked and might get too much noise in the signal or just not enough signal. maybe buy the RNP from mercenary or someplace that is cool if you buy something and if its not a fit you don't have to eat it.

[rty5150]

if you could spring just a little bit more, i know that my sytek LOVES ribbons.


rich

[estebanblanco]

For that price, get a pair of LDC or SDC mics that are better suited for location recording than your ribbon mic.

I've had good luck with SDCs for this sort of situation but have been considering a stereo ribbon because this performance is almost all strings. I've never recorded strings, only solo musicians (acoustic guitar, woodwiinds), small ensembles of woodwinds, jazz combos and 4/5-piece rock bands. My current SDC/LDCs are two of the MXL 990/991 kits and one A-T 4047/SV I've used almost entirely for vocals. I also own two Joe Meek JM27 mics and I've used them to record a small vocal choir.

What SDC or LDC pair would you recommend that would either work well with the interfaces I mentioned above or be within my budget and still be able to purchase the FMR RNP? And why specifically do you recommend condensers over ribbons for this sort of location recording? Do you think using a 2nd 4047 would work well in this situation?

[jgimbel]

And why specifically do you recommend condensers over ribbons for this sort of location recording?

I'd think it's the gain issue. Strings are a quiet source (compared to something like drums, that is). So a quiet source that isn't close-miced with a mic that needs a ton of gain is the ideal way to get noise in your chain. Even if you were micing something like electric guitars with the mic back a good bit, since it's a ribbon you'd still need a good bit of gain, possibly enough to start to get some noise there. But what you're talking about sounds like a recipe for noise. An LDC would be better because generally they have much higher outputs than ribbon mics. So since the mic will need less gain to pick up a good signal, you might not get into the realm of having noise.

I haven't used a 4047 before, but I think two would work great for this application. I have a 3035 that I haven't had that long, but from the bit I've used it I know it's an incredibly quiet mic, so if the 4047 is equally quiet then it's one less place to get noise in your chain. That fact, plus the higher output of it being an LDC, will make you not need as much gain to get a good signal, therefore not getting the noise you'd be begging for with a ribbon.

Not that ribbons don't have their place, I love them! Just not on quiet sources that I don't want to mic up close (if it's something I don't want to have noise in). I use my ribbon most as a drum room mic and close-ish micing for electric guitar (back 8" or so), both of which are loud enough sources that it's easy to get a loud signal without needing to crank the gain.

[kayagum]

Why condensers over ribbons? Assuming you're recording in a good room or concert hall, you may want the extra sensitivity of the condensers to capture the extra ambience/reverb of the space.

I've had really good luck recording classical ensembles with both LDCs (NT1) and SDCs (NT5) in an ORTF setup, via RNP into a HD24, and I haven't ever had to crank the RNP over 40dB. A lot of people on this board like the Oktava MC012 too, and I bet your mics would work just fine.

It's not that ribbons WON'T work, it just may be better suited for other applications. Remember, you're recording an ensemble, not doing a close mic on a single instrument.

[oilcanstudios]

I use my rnp with the group buy rsm2's and it's outstanding

mainly for overheads though

[vvv]

I sometimes feel like a salesman for Studio Projects on this (I'm not even in the audio field), but the VTB1 is rather nice with ribbons, for not alotta money.