To old to be a Intern?

[Ryan Silva]

So I have come to the realization that I would like to start working in other studios besides my own.

The main issue is this: I have never worked as an engineer in any other studio besides my own.

I can?t align a tape machine
I can?t seem to make sense of patchbays that are not my own
I have used Nuendo, Final Cut, and Wavelab for 10 years, but very little Pro Tools.

I can imagine walking into a studio without those three aforementioned skills would be absolutely laughable.

I mean,

I know artists,
I know how to work with Time constraints,
I know how to stay under budget,
I can even tune drums.

At 34 is an internship the right move for me, will I be out of place? Will it even be worth my Time?

Thanks Guys

[kslight]

I'm 24 and I think an internship is a waste of time for me, and I don't know how many people my age could even do it with expenses...I need a paying job thanks. Can't pay a mortgage, utilities, student loans, et cetera by fetching coffee and plunging toilets. Just my opinion though...



Of the "issues" you have listed, the only one I would say to worry about is learn Pro Tools...buy a used M-Box or something and a book and teach yourself. Most engineers at studios I have worked with will "show you around" the patchbay and equipment and/or the quirks of the cabling/console before a session if you ask. And maybe I'm just lazy but when I work with tape I just clean the heads, I don't bias the machine because I just use whatever formula tape the house guy recommends.

And also, you could always book the session and be the "assistant" engineer and learn from the house engineer and then maybe on your next session do it yourself.

[Ryan Silva]

And also, you could always book the session and be the "assistant" engineer and learn from the house engineer and then maybe on your next session do it yourself.

This is good advice, I sometimes send bands to other studios, for 'Big Drums', or "Grand Piano" but I always feel like I'll just be in the way. Might have to rethink that.

Benefits of being me:

No credit card debt.
4 weeks of paid vacation I need to use.



Have a Mbox for transfers, but without my converters (lynx) and my VST plug-ins, I cant bring myself to even start a PT project, knowing I will transfer it to Nuendo eventually.

But yes I am aware that Pro Tools is my biggest hurdle, and I should not take it lightly.

Thanks

[cgarges]

I don't ever think an internship is a bad idea. If you're interning at a cool studio, there's plenty to learn, even if you never touch a fader. If they don't ever let you touch a fader, there may be something to be said for that on your end. Maybe not, but a good intern would take that into realistic consideration.

Along those lines, with the mass of interns available out there, most studios I know only deal with interns in some kind of college program. In general, I think that's fair, but that doesn't help your situation.

Any time I work at a new studio, I hire a house guy to assist me for at least a day. Some studios require that you have a house assistant around longer. If you have a house guy around, then there's no need for you to sweat anything, unless you're completely unfamiliar with the studio's recording medium. If that's the case, maybe look for a studio that has a medium with which you're comfortable or get your PT chops together.

Most studios (if set up correctly) kind of work the same way and no amount of preparation can get you into a flawless workflow in every single studio without any help. The patchbay thing might be tricky if you don't understand how they work, but every studio has a slightly different patchbay layout and even the most seasoned pros can find themselves looking for the 2-mix output distribution or the cue amp inputs in a new studio.

I've done engineering on my own (without an assistant) in three different studios in the last week and a half. I love it. It's totally fun and rewarding and not something that everybody gets to do. The opportunity to work at these places came to me in weird ways, but I made them all happen. They didn't just fall into my lap. And yes, the first time I worked in each of these places, I hired a house assistant.

In any case, booking a studio as a freelancer is a really smart move. I've been saying it for years. If you want to have any sort of chance of getting outside work from a studio, make yourself valuable to them by bringing them some clients. I've been on both sides of this scenario and it's a win/win for everybody.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[Nick Sevilla]

An internship is never a bad idea.

Going back to basics is always good, you end up understanding more and more of how stuff works, and how good sounds are recorded.

I did an "internship" for 5 years in one studio, I considered it my college education in Recording.

I learned from every single person that came through the door. Even if it was simple things like manners, or how to serve proper English Tea (important if working with English bands) and other things not usually associated with audio.

But all of that made me a better person. And reminded me to stay humble throughout my career.

Please do learn Pro Tools, it is the industry standard, regardless of what anyone might say on the forum. It may not have all the bells and whistles, but it is the sound of today, and is involved in 99% of the hits made these days.
The first successful record that was aknowledged to have been mixed ITB (In The Box) of great success was Ricky Martin's "Livin' La Vida Loca" and that sold tons and tons. Mixed inside Pro Tools HD.

Yes, Logic Pro has a lot of bells and whistles, but Pro Tools crashes a lot less, therefore has a greater productivity ratio. And that number is king in this industry. more stuff done = more money made. Bottom line. I own both, and in the end it goes to PT HD for final mix. No bugs, no hassles. PRODUCTIVITY.

Cheers

[cgarges]

The first successful record that was aknowledged to have been mixed ITB (In The Box) of great success was Ricky Martin's "Livin' La Vida Loca" and that sold tons and tons. Mixed inside Pro Tools HD.

Well, there you go.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[Marc Alan Goodman]

Yep. It's far more important that you find somebody cool to work with than that you find a room with cool crap in it. If you already know what you're doing and you meet an engineer you admire and get along with you'll end up as a paid assistant in no time.

[ofajen]

The main issue is this: I have never worked as an engineer in any other studio besides my own.

I can?t align a tape machine
I can?t seem to make sense of patchbays that are not my own
I have used Nuendo, Final Cut, and Wavelab for 10 years, but very little Pro Tools.

I can imagine walking into a studio without those three aforementioned skills would be absolutely laughable.

There is certainly no harm in learning a bit more about patch bays. Philip Giddings' book, "Audio Systems Design and Installation" has an excellent section on studio interconnections, just to name one.

Cheers,

Otto

[@?,*???&?]

So I have come to the realization that I would like to start working in other studios besides my own.

The main issue is this: I have never worked as an engineer in any other studio besides my own.

I can?t align a tape machine
I can?t seem to make sense of patchbays that are not my own
I have used Nuendo, Final Cut, and Wavelab for 10 years, but very little Pro Tools.

I can imagine walking into a studio without those three aforementioned skills would be absolutely laughable.

And yet in Los Angeles this happens all the time. Band/label finds an engineer, they rent a room, walk in and the assistant knows way more about making a recording and using the gear on-hand to do so than the hired engineer. I sat many an hour with engineers who didn't know the console automation, couldn't find their way around the patchbay and I actually had one guy say to me, "I'll just work the eq's and you do the rest." wtf?

Having been that assistant, it's up to you to make sure the engineer doesn't shit on himself in the process. You can play adversary (never productive), play passive/aggressive, productive and could lead to work, or just keep your mouth shut and get passed by for future work, or keep your mouth shut and the hired engineer flounders terribly and you may end up picking up the pieces- or the project just fails and nothing gets done and it costs someone way too much money.

As a freelancer, every control room is the same, in principal. If you are not familiar with the standardized lay-out of control room patch-bays, then that can be learned. There are myriad downloadable .pdfs of SSL patchbays and THOSE ARE STANDARD. Study them before-hand.

If you are a freelance engineer, I beg you to befriend the assistant engineer at the facility you chose to work. You'll always have questions, you can't expect to go in to a room you've never worked in and become an expert. Many guys who mix real records work at studios they usually assisted out of- reason is- they know that room best. Don't be afraid to ask for help.

If you've never been in a real studio, then you probably don't know what roles people play at those studios. That's where being a runner at one is a good starting place. Don't be an intern, no one wants an intern, every studio will take a runner and if you're committed, you might graduate and become an assistant engineer at some point.

Or, you can just say "F---it, I know what I know and I make the records I make in the only way that I know how."

[trodden]

Well it all depends on what is happening in ones personal life, and the internship itself really.

Here is my story of internships and life.

I'm 35 years old. I'm a production intern at KEXP 90.3. I graduated with bashelor's of science degree in broadcast journalism with a focus on Radio and TV Production in 1997 from Kansas State University, THIRTEEN YEARS AGO!!!!!!

I interned at a small, not very successful recording studio to finish my degree's requirments back in 1997. I didn't learn much, It kinda wasted a lot of time which i could have probably gained at another internship, but at the same time, got me into this recording bug since i fooled around on the gear on my own time while there and recorded the bands i played in and other friend's bands.

I worked in television production for about 9 months out of college while living in Lawrence, Ks. I made minimum wage ($5.25 maybe?) and the hours were horrible. i'd have to spend my whole day in and out of the station, either doing audio for the live news casts or helping shoot video. even though i would be in and all day, it was still "part-time" since i'd only be on the clock a few hours at a time throughout the day.

Couldn't pay bills and live on that, and the schedule wasn't working out with my "rock and roll" lifestyle.. playing in bands, staying out late, etc...

continued on four tracking.

I moved to Seattle in 2000. Worked some crappy part-time jobs.. one for a .com that folded in the great .com bubble burst and was laid off. Perfect timing for an internship. Hit the town and was met with a lot of attitude, mostly since I wasn't a student and places were hesitant to give me an internship because "well we aren't paying you but would feel better giving someone at least college credit" Finally found and started an internship at a small, cool, laid back, rocking studio here in seattle. LEARNED A TON!, recorded on tape, which i already knew some about, but was introduced to protools, neve pre amps, ribbon mic's , session flow, and all kinds of fun... made some great friends, and recorded some awesome bands.

studio was shut down after about 10 months there. Didn't have the discography, "name", resume to free lance in many of the other commercial studios in town.. none were really "hiring" but available for outside engineers to work out of.. I wasn't really comfortable enough with my skills.. and couldn't get bands with budgets to work out of these places.

I started collecting gear. recording demos for bands in my rehearsal space.. collected more gear, kept recording more and more out of the space.. learning more and more on my own by JUST DOING IT, reading this board, and assisting other engineers on records in bigger studios. NETWORKING and RECORDING...

by 2004 I had my own small basement place and gear to make it work and was making some pretty cool records with some pretty cool bands for the next 5 and a half years. I always had a day job though.

I got laid off from a job in August of 2008, right before the economy tanked... since then, i've been to so many interviews. i've probably applied for hundreds of jobs. Mostly in the admin/legal sectors. I was a legal secretary for 5 years before moving to the job i was laid off from.

THERE WERE NO JOBS IN SEATTLE. At least ones that I could live off of. There was some work, but i was getting paid more in unemployment benefits than to take part-time $8 an hour jobs working in bar/restaurant industry...

I used the time to be creative though, recording bands, playing music, touring..... but kept going to interviews, kept being told "it was a tough decision.... you have some great skills.." or basically being told, "ummm we don't want to hire some guy with dread locks down to his ass, rings in his nose and ears and tattoos." "we need to start asking for photographs with resumes" was kind of the attitude i got a few snooty law firms.

It was really bringing me down. Broke, out of work, feeling that i was going to be really fucked soon when my unemployment runs out.. I had a lot of money still in my savings though luckily..

I applied at KEXP 90.3 for a production internship. I love it. It balances out the fact that employment here in this town is still down, and that I don't want to take some shit job just to have one.. I'd rather be broke and spend my time at the station, meeting new people, working with a cool non-profit radio station, being a part of a community of people who love music.

If it wasn't for this internship. I think the trials of life and the economy, employment would have made me drink myself to death... even more than i've already tried... Its helped with depression, be it seasonal, or in general....

I'll keep balancing this with odd jobs until something comes my way, rather than just giving in and ending up in some cubicle somewhere doing mind numbing work for shit pay...

So yeah, i've had three different internships the past 13 years. I'm glad they all happened for many various reasons...

It all depends on what is happening in life at the time I guess, and what you are seeking to gain from taking something like that on.

I'm currently in the middle of building out a new studio as well. Good thing I had some money saved.. its costing me a bit more than planned.,.. of course. But i've got a handful of bands banging on the door, excited to get in there....

[trodden]

[.

If you are a freelance engineer, I beg you to befriend the assistant engineer at the facility you chose to work. You'll always have questions, you can't expect to go in to a room you've never work and become an expert. So many guys who mix real records work at studios they usually assisted out of- reason is- they know that room best. Don't be afraid to ask for help.

."

Totally.. now after some time, I am getting bands with bigger budgets and desires to go to bigger studios in town.. and getting to know the house engineers at these places has saved my ass many times.

[Tragabigzanda]

And also, you could always book the session and be the "assistant" engineer and learn from the house engineer and then maybe on your next session do it yourself.

This is exactly what I've done, and it's proven to be a great back door into the industry. Also, don't underestimate the power of "dinner's on me, just let me pick your brain." There were so many basic questions when I began, so I found a couple really learned people, took them out for a good meal, and asked all the questions I wanted! They were more than happy to answer...

[solo-bration]

my 2 cents of advice...

1) take the internship. it's not just about getting 'hands on'. its the ears on and eyes on that is valuable. techniques. interactions. situations. experience.

2) don't bitch about interning. we don't care that all you did/do is mop floors and take out the trash. everyone in this industry has been there.

[aitikin]

Yes, Logic Pro has a lot of bells and whistles, but Pro Tools crashes a lot less, therefore has a greater productivity ratio. And that number is king in this industry. more stuff done = more money made. Bottom line. I own both, and in the end it goes to PT HD for final mix. No bugs, no hassles. PRODUCTIVITY.

[OT]My God I do not want to take this thread off topic, but I have to say, I run Logic Pro on a hackintosh at home and I work on a professionally installed (as in a big company was paid loads of money to put everything together and make it work) Pro Tools HD3 system and guess which one crashes. The Pro Tools system.

I have had live concerts that we literally missed the first piece or two because Pro Tools crashed, and then it didn't boot correctly, and then Pro Tools wouldn't load correctly, costing us 30 minutes.[/OT]

I'm going to agree with pretty much all the points made by @?,*???&?. Also, when you have the internship, be polite and do everything you can to make friends with the house staff and any engineers that come in. It really helps.

[Brian]

Just do it, when I move, it will be he first thing I do, and I'm a LOT older than you.
I know PT and Logic, and tape, and many boards, and tons of outboard, but probably no people where I will go, so, I'll intern, probably last about a week or two before I get projects.