Tascam Syncaset 238 WORTH the buy? + HOW TO SYNC TO MPC 60?

[ionfive]

i am about to get a 238, i hope i like it soundwise, and i hope the Multitrack 8 ch. approach is a way i like to work... but i think so


but my main concer is now.... how do you manage to record each track in the right timing so that it fits the previous one(s) ?

i understand that if you are a good Musician with good rythm you dont need any sync but simply jam into it.

but i am working Seqeuncer based MPC 60

so i guess in order to have the next track in sync with the previous i need to sync the Tape and MPC together right?

is that done through the SNYC out of the MPC?

and does this makes sense? somehow sounds like hassle

any help apreciated

[A.David.MacKinnon]

Provided that your sequencer can read time code and act as slave to another machine I'd stripe time code to one track on the 8 track machine and use it as the master. I used to do this with my old Tascam 38 and a DA88 when I needed extra tracks.
Be sure to disable any noise reduction on the time code track and be careful about recording something hot on the adjoining track.

[ionfive]

yes i thought so... as far as i know the MPC60 has MTC but also SMPTE
but MTC is the way?


adjoining track ????

[A.David.MacKinnon]

Either one should work fine.
Adjoining track - be careful what you record on the track next to the time code track. If the signal is extra hot (like a kick drum recorded way in the red) there's a good chance that cross talk between the tape tracks will corrupt the time code and make synch impossible.

[ionfive]

aaaah i seee.. ok so maybe percussions there

hmm i am absolutley new to Multitrack

do you think this makes sense in todays audioworld? i know it comes down to personal prefs but i think i ll dig the overall workflow of 8 track limitaion multritracking so i can get more detailed recordings for each channel etc...


but this whole sync thing.... is that a hassle or once set up always easy to reproduce etc?

but i dont get this... do have to actually RECORD the full first track of the 8 with the Sync signal? still i am not dire how this is done.. i know the mpc has Snyc out and in



and also i hope this wont fuck with my synchronisation between my MPC60 (master seqeuncer) and my soundmodules ASR10/Logic pro/SE1 wich midi data is recored into the MPC seqeuncer to be in sync with everything

damn i hope i am not making a mistake with the Multitrack approach

[A.David.MacKinnon]

Yes you want to record time code on the full length of 1 track. It's a little extra set up time but is otherwise quite solid. I never had synch problems.

I'm not sure how you'd handle having other stuff synched to the sequencer if it's acting as a slave to the tape machine. I would imagine some kind of midi thru set-up might work but I'm not much of a midi guy.
The best way to figure it out is to try and try again.

[ionfive]

so you are positive that when synced to the tape my present midi-synchroniation between the named units wont work anymore as it is set up now?

uuugh sounds horror.. was pain enough to get everything done like it is....

[A.David.MacKinnon]

No I'm not positive about anything. Like I said, the best way to sort it out is to try and try again.

[kayagum]

If I were you, I'd just record the audio tracks that are dependent on your MPC on to 1 or 2 tracks on the 238, then use the other tracks to overdub.

Way easier and faster than trying to sync. Any of us who grew up on 4 tracks and drum machines have done it this way for decades. (And yes, I did own a 238s for many years).

I think you're over thinking it.

[ionfive]

--

[ionfive]

second.... ok i think i now know what you mean, the thing is like 80% o my songs are "depending" on the mpc, as the ASR10 sampler and SE1 Synth aswell as Logic instruments are "slaved" to the mpc as soundmodules


but basicaly, what you are saying is, laying down the fundamental rythm on a stereo track adn playing the rest "live" with feel to it and overdubb and NOT sequenced

is taht what you mean?

[The Scum]

The old fashioned way of synching drums machines with taps was like this:

The "first pass" you make, the drum machine is the master clock. You take its sync or timecode output, and print it to a track on the tape. On my old Roland machine, I used the FSK sync output.

The sync signal is a pretty obnoxious digital waveform...the Roland ones sound like a fax machine. You usually put it on the last track of the tape. You also often lose the track next to it, because if it's printed hot enough to sync for playback, it bleeds into the next track over, especially on 8 track cassette machines.

All subsequent passes, you put the drum machine in slave mode, reading the sync track from the tape. As the tape plays, the drum machine will follow along. At which point, you can compose whatever sequences you want, on whatever combination of instruements.

I'd be wary of the 238 at this point. They're 20 year old cassette decks, and unless they've been babied, they're going to need some maintenance.

[ionfive]

i see waht you mean, i sure hope moto and heads will be allright!

but the synch stuf really means quite some hassle it seems... first its loosing one track now it seems its rather 2 tracks...

is there ANYTHING desireable about the Sound of these Desks after all???

or is there something better?


what about kayagum`s approach?

kayagum i would apreciate if you elaborate more

i would love to skip the synch thing... that basicaly means i have to record everything that is MPC-time based in ONE Take and all other things that i think i can play realtime i ll record in overdubs.. right!?

i think that doesnt sound too bad

anyone else a word on this?




edit: on the other hand i loose the whole multitrack advance this way since my stuff is 80% sample based

sucks.. dunno whats the right way to do this

[ashcat_lt]

but the synch stuf really means quite some hassle it seems... first its loosing one track now it seems its rather 2 tracks...

Not all that much hassle once you get the hang of it. The simplest way would be to only stripe the part of the tape you're going to use for the one song. If, that is, you are going to be trying to cram more than one song onto a single cassette. Otherwise, you have to worry about timecode offsets and things.

I did this for years on 4-track cassette. 8-tracks are going to necessarily have narrower tracks, therefor more bleed, but you can usually put something on the adjacent track. Just not something that gets way hot, nor something too sparse where the bleed won't be masked. Pads, rhythm guitars, and stuff can work okay. A low down bass track might work here too, as long as you watch the level, 'cause you could EQ out the high-freq annoyance from the sync track.

Based on the (rather vague) description of what you're doing, I don't think your synths are actually sync'd to the MPC, but rather just playing back the notes it sends to them. This won't cause any problem at all. Even if they are syncing via MTC, it's likely the MPC will regenerate MTC at it's MIDI outputs based on what it receives from its sync in. You might want to RTFM on that one, but most hardware sequencers work this way.

Speaking of MTC, it's a digital "language" used to sync machines via MIDI cables (even if those are "virtual"). An audible (and recordable) sync signal will always be either SMPTE or FSK or something of the sort. Sequencers often listen to this audio sync signal and convert it to MTC.

is there ANYTHING desireable about the Sound of these Desks after all???

Do you like white noise?

or is there something better?

Didn't you say you had a computer running Logic?

i would love to skip the synch thing... that basicaly means i have to record everything that is MPC-time based in ONE Take and all other things that i think i can play realtime i ll record in overdubs.. right!?

In this case you're forced to commit to a "performance" and mix of whatever's coming out of the synths. Not necessarily a bad thing, but it might cause frustration when it comes to final mix time.

Also, if you're doing stereo for this, you're still using up 2 of your 8 tracks.

I personally think that since the bulk of your mix is going to be coming off the synths, you'd ought to figure out the sync thing.

[ionfive]

hi thanks for the input, i see what you mean


oh well, but now i ve no clue if this ll give me anything i like sonicaly at all...

if i like white noise? uhm dunno, i liked my reel to reel when i used one..but that was a stereo deck.

i like the way i can build up a song outside the DAW in 8 tracks with my samplers and real instruments...

yes you are right i could probably do teh same with Logic as Multitrack recorder... but somehow i a not sure if that feels the same... i also want to drive some tracks on drums into clipping the tape deck etc


should i rather keep my hands of those ol syncasets?