Advice on mixing piano

[starlightwalker]

Happy with mixes on my new record but feel the piano sounds little dull and flat on these tracks. We recorded a grand with two 414s. The piano is mixed fairly spread out. A bit of natural reverb from the room we cut in. Would a bit of plate open it up? EQ? Any advice? Needs bunch and more vibrance. Thanks. Overall advice is appreciated.

Fairly large file (6 Mp3s) but welcome to listen if you like.

https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B4tlhE ... ODll&hl=en

[stompforfuzz]

The piano sounds good to me, but if you want it brighter I'd tweak the eq. Sweep a narrow band across the upper mids and highs at 4 or 5db and identify what you want to hear more of, then scale it back down again and adjust the bandwidth until it sounds "right."


I hope I've explained what I'm thinking correctly, I'm a novice with limited "pro" vocabulary.

Cheers

[A.David.MacKinnon]

I find that parallel compression helps on some piano tracks. I'll often crush the shit out of it with a brick wall limiter, roll out the lows and boost the upper mids on the compressed track. It sounds awful solo'd but sneaking a little under the untreated track helps the piano poke through a dense mix.
Don't be afraid to low cut. Pianos have a lot of low mid information that can compete with bass, toms and guitars. You'd be surprise at how much low mid you can cut without the piano starting to sound weird in the context of the mix. I tread lightly if the piano is the main instrument but if it's one of several rhythm instruments I'll often cut everything below 300HZ.
Also, when tracking I'll often reach for the cheap Chinese condensers (usually the Apex pencil mics), especially when micing the back of an upright piano. Everything that makes these mics sound like shit on the majority of sources (sibilant, a big presence bump, harsh high end) makes them work on upright piano. Again, tread lightly if it's the feature instrument but remember that you're not after a great solo'd piano sound, you're after a great piano sound in the context of the mix.

[jgimbel]

I find that parallel compression helps on some piano tracks. I'll often crush the shit out of it with a brick wall limiter, roll out the lows and boost the upper mids on the compressed track. It sounds awful solo'd but sneaking a little under the untreated track helps the piano poke through a dense mix.
Don't be afraid to low cut. Pianos have a lot of low mid information that can compete with bass, toms and guitars. You'd be surprise at how much low mid you can cut without the piano starting to sound weird in the context of the mix. I tread lightly if the piano is the main instrument but if it's one of several rhythm instruments I'll often cut everything below 300HZ.
Also, when tracking I'll often reach for the cheap Chinese condensers (usually the Apex pencil mics), especially when micing the back of an upright piano. Everything that makes these mics sound like shit on the majority of sources (sibilant, a big presence bump, harsh high end) makes them work on upright piano. Again, tread lightly if it's the feature instrument but remember that you're not after a great solo'd piano sound, you're after a great piano sound in the context of the mix.

+1 on everything here. The frequencies in voices that make chinese mics sound so harsh are ones I end up boosting afterward with piano, and since switching to just using those mics in the first place for piano they've been perfect. And yeah in a dense mix you need such a small range of piano to make it still sound like a piano, it's strange. Guitars get really weird and fake sounding, same with drums, but piano has a lot of frequencies you can afford to take out (or might need to) to get a really nice sound.

But I don't have issues with your piano sounds, sounds good to me.

[Marc Alan Goodman]

I find that parallel compression helps on some piano tracks. I'll often crush the shit out of it with a brick wall limiter, roll out the lows and boost the upper mids on the compressed track. It sounds awful solo'd but sneaking a little under the untreated track helps the piano poke through a dense mix.
Don't be afraid to low cut. Pianos have a lot of low mid information that can compete with bass, toms and guitars. You'd be surprise at how much low mid you can cut without the piano starting to sound weird in the context of the mix. I tread lightly if the piano is the main instrument but if it's one of several rhythm instruments I'll often cut everything below 300HZ.
Also, when tracking I'll often reach for the cheap Chinese condensers (usually the Apex pencil mics), especially when micing the back of an upright piano. Everything that makes these mics sound like shit on the majority of sources (sibilant, a big presence bump, harsh high end) makes them work on upright piano. Again, tread lightly if it's the feature instrument but remember that you're not after a great solo'd piano sound, you're after a great piano sound in the context of the mix.

+1 on everything here. The frequencies in voices that make chinese mics sound so harsh are ones I end up boosting afterward with piano, and since switching to just using those mics in the first place for piano they've been perfect. And yeah in a dense mix you need such a small range of piano to make it still sound like a piano, it's strange. Guitars get really weird and fake sounding, same with drums, but piano has a lot of frequencies you can afford to take out (or might need to) to get a really nice sound.

But I don't have issues with your piano sounds, sounds good to me.

Yes and yes. Try the same thing with a copperphone. It's awesome.

[A.David.MacKinnon]

I find that parallel compression helps on some piano tracks. I'll often crush the shit out of it with a brick wall limiter, roll out the lows and boost the upper mids on the compressed track. It sounds awful solo'd but sneaking a little under the untreated track helps the piano poke through a dense mix.
Don't be afraid to low cut. Pianos have a lot of low mid information that can compete with bass, toms and guitars. You'd be surprise at how much low mid you can cut without the piano starting to sound weird in the context of the mix. I tread lightly if the piano is the main instrument but if it's one of several rhythm instruments I'll often cut everything below 300HZ.
Also, when tracking I'll often reach for the cheap Chinese condensers (usually the Apex pencil mics), especially when micing the back of an upright piano. Everything that makes these mics sound like shit on the majority of sources (sibilant, a big presence bump, harsh high end) makes them work on upright piano. Again, tread lightly if it's the feature instrument but remember that you're not after a great solo'd piano sound, you're after a great piano sound in the context of the mix.

+1 on everything here. The frequencies in voices that make chinese mics sound so harsh are ones I end up boosting afterward with piano, and since switching to just using those mics in the first place for piano they've been perfect. And yeah in a dense mix you need such a small range of piano to make it still sound like a piano, it's strange. Guitars get really weird and fake sounding, same with drums, but piano has a lot of frequencies you can afford to take out (or might need to) to get a really nice sound.

But I don't have issues with your piano sounds, sounds good to me.

Yes and yes. Try the same thing with a copperphone. It's awesome.

Agreed. Crystal mics are great too as are any mic that sounds telephone-y.

[nortstudio]

+1 on the Copperfone.

Also, if using a grand, placing a SDC (with a pad) in one of the holes on the soundboard can sound really punchy and crisp. You have to check out the different holes to see which one sounds best. On our piano, we usually go with the hole 3rd back from the hammers. This blended with the more typical mic setup can really sound amazing - and depending on what you are going for, sometimes handles it all on it's own.

Also, +1 on scooping out the EQ in the low mids (sweep between 300-500hz in my experience - but all pianos are a bit different) helps a ton. It always seems to be these frequencies that are causing mud, and no pleasant punch or balanced low end.