Advice on 2nd and 3rd mic+pre purchase acoustic/cello/drum..

[tendershoot]

Hey All,

long time listener, first time caller...

just a quick note to start - thanks. it's so wonderful to have a forum like this where knowledge is shared so readily. I've learnt so much from reading the magazine and the posts here - not just about the gear but about the slings and arrows of a life spent manipulating sound and trying to live creatively. Combined with some experiments recording at home, it's a good kind of apprenticeship.

I'm looking to step up to the next infinitesimal level for my studio. My philosophy for buying gear is to save money and buy well once, rather than trade up. At the moment I mostly use just one channel strip which as you can imagine is fairly limiting (!!) (sometimes a good thing) but the results have been good.

I go through a voxbox>apogee converter>HD. I also borrow a Tascam 688 and use the pres and eq>Apogee>HD which I'm really happy with too. mics = U47/SM7/Beta 58/reslo ribbon(can never get enough gain for this)/AT822 + edirol R-09 set up in weird places for room sound.

What I'm looking for now though is my next two mic pre channels/mics - I figure I can do most things I need to right now with 3 channels. The voxbox is kinda good and thick and verstile so I'm thinking something clean and/something neve-ish

The music I'm working on is mostly folk with ambient flecks. My main desire right now is to work at capturing vox with acoustic guitar or vox with piano etc performances with instrument and singing at the same time.

Other Instruments to cover = cello/mandolin/pump organs/ harmonium/ folk jazz sounding drums/dulcimer - that kind of thing. Music in my hemisphere right now is nina simone / van (around astral weeks) / staple singers (verve) / leonard cohen (John Simon records) / john lennon solo / morricone's spaghett.......and more recently bat for lashes / bon iver / vetiver / cold war kids /fleet foxes kind of things

My Contenders:
Api 512c x2 (would have to buy a lunch box too)
Aurora Audio GTQ2mkIII
Vintech 1272 *current front runner for quality and price

mics:
coles 4038/shiny box ribbon
KM84
sm57
Blue Mouse
Sennheiser 421/441/409???


thoughts appreciated?

[LazarusLong]

I dig your idea of the 1272. If that doesn't satisfy you:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/LangMicPre/
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/HV3C/ <- CLEAN.

I also second the Mouse. Here's some other ideas:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MA201FET/
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Clarion/
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/AT4081/ <- my favorite ribbon these days (shh, don't tell Wes Dooley!)

A FET condenser or a ribbon seems like it would fit you nicely. The Mouse is not FET, but the Mouse has the virtue of being unique.

[Marc Alan Goodman]

Lazarus nailed it.

[tendershoot]

In the words of Nick Cave, I Dig Lazarus Dig.

Thanks for that.

Will the vintech 1272 have enough gain for the ribbon mics? Or do you think I'd need a pre-amp specifically designed for ribbon mics?

I've read some of Joel Hamilton's praise for the Vintech high gain mod - perhaps this would solve the problem (if there is one?) Does anyone know how you get the vintech modded?

Also, has anyone had an experience with the http://www.avantelectronics.com/CR-14.htm? I've read great things about their CV-12 and would buy one if I didn't already have a wonderful tube mic already.

cheers

[AK Audio]

There's been some outstanding response, but just thought I'd throw in my two cents - I think we probably have similar thoughts on gear-buying, and likely musical taste from the sounds of your gear.

I own an older BLUE Mouse and am thoroughly impressed! However I have a few friends who are staff engineers at studios in Seattle that own newer versions of the mic and are quite underwhelmed with it... often reaching for recent U87's or similar instead (not my personal taste). So you may want to look for an older one? I hear the transformer being used has possibly changed (*not quite sure on that)?

I recently used an API 3124+ on a project and was also pleasantly surprised. I think the 512, or even the 312 could work out just fine. I had previously only used vintage 500 series units, but felt the results were quite comparable.

Likewise I've used the Vintech extensively and have appreciation for it, although I recorded the same acoustic with the same mic's (KM 184 & C 451 E) with two different 1272's and got very different results... not entirely sure why. Their products do tend to range pretty drastically - while in school I used a set of supposedly matched X73i's but wasn't thrilled with the results when using them for stereo techniques. After some thorough testing with two professors we realized the units were off by as much as 10 db's at certain frequencies!

I also have a UA-2610, which may be similar to the voxbox? Haven't used one before. But I've had great success with the Universal Audio stuff as well. The shelving eq's can be great, especially when using them with ribbons or on backing instrumentation. Only down side is there isn't nearly as much headroom as the API, Focusrite ISA, etc.

[tendershoot]

AK, just as I was getting closer to a decision you throw a spanner in the worksi! I need an old mouse and the vintech might be dodgy.

I think I'll run the risk with 1272 I think

and will try a few different mice before I buy

cheers

[Sean Sullivan]

Millennia's sound good on mandolin if you want to capture a lot of detail. API, Neve, and the like with soften the sound, which you may or may not want depending on the quality of the instrument.

I think the "magic" of Neve preamps are the EQ. I think you might be a little disappointed without the option. The Aurora has a limited EQ, but that's better than no EQ.

[AK Audio]

I don't think you will be disappointed with the 1272, especially for that price. However, I would just be a bit leary about trusting for "true" stereo results. Otherwise, a great preamp and a great value.

As for the Mouse - definitely try it before you buy it! And as Joel H is always raving, use it on the outside of a kick to see it in full glory!

[Nick Sevilla]

Brent Averill 1073 or 1081 clone of the Neves.

Actually clones, like in the Star Wars movies. Only these are guaranteed to work.

Cheers

[tendershoot]

Thanks all. I think the magic of the Neve's being in the the combination of eq and pre is spot on.

It's time to go away and do the sums now.

Deep breaths..

[kingmetal]

I can't speak from personal experience YET, but around mid-March I'll have my hands on Michael Joly's R0de NT1A mod and you should give it a listen. There's a whole Gearslutz shoot out with a U87 that it fared extremely well in, and the really cool thing about the original R0de design is it's extremely low noise. That's about the only thing that's good about the original mic, but Mr. Joly puts a whole new capsule in the thing and cleans up the horrific headbasket the NT1A comes with and turns the thing into a whole new monster.

Just give it a listen and see what you think. The U67-esq capsule would probably serve the applications you mentioned fairly well I would imagine, but like I said this is all totally theoretical since I've never put my hands on this mic.

I have, however, put my hands on Joly's version of the KM84, which is an MXL991 (or MXL 603 or a number of other KM84 clones) with extensive physical modifications and some reworked electronics. They are unmatched for the price and I have a pair of them that I use extensively. Later this week I am going to post some audio examples, but they are beautiful on acoustic guitar and stand-up bass. Check out the link in my signature and the stand up bass on the song 'Sleep With the Beatless' is a Joly 991 near the sound hole and a DPA 4061 at the bridge. My room is totally untreated and my mic/mix/mastering techniques leave much to be desired but I think it's a decent example of how good that mic is -- the 991 was the leading track in my mix and I barely used the 4061 track.

Just some off-the-path suggestions, it looks like you've got some really great options and it's hard to think you could go wrong with anything you've mentioned so far.

Also, isn't there a version of the Mouse that more desired? Like a black one or something? Some kind of different transformer or something?

[tendershoot]

Thanks Bill

i love the that bass sound and what's more the song is great.

beautiful

[tendershoot]

Ps Bill. if you haven't already, you might want to check out a site called Bandcamp. I just downloaded your EP - thanks for it being free - but you didn't give me a chance to give you my email address or give you some money.

bandcamp can be set up on your site a bunch of different ways so people can listen for free or download for free, or for whatever they want to pay, or for a set price. a good example of the way it's best used is with a band like Hope and Social. just sayin.

[kingmetal]

Ah thanks for the kind words, that's actually not me on the album (I'm Lucius, of Little Ship Studios... should probably make that clearer in my signature!). I actually have a band camp account that I haven't really looked into heavily -- this album release kind of crept up on me fast and I spent so much time grappling with mixing / mastering the thing that I didn't explore all my options for releasing it.

But I'll look into bandcamp for either a future release or as an upgrade to the current release! Seems like a good service I just didn't dig into it.

I think it really says something about the mics when I can get that good of a sound out of them -- I really can't understate that I really barely have any idea what I'm doing, and those mics really make it easy to impress people and they're so cheap!

But, like I said, you can't really go wrong with anything you've listed so you're swimming in good options. Good luck!

[tendershoot]

my mistake. Thanks Lucius. keep up the great work.