Cassette duplication.

[Theo_Karon]

So, I've recently decided that it might be a good idea to put out a number of releases on cassette. I'd like to sidestep the discussion about whether the format is still viable or worthwhile sonically- I don't think they sound all that great, although they can certainly sound alright when well done and people do buy them- and talk about some practical stuff. My plan was, for now at least, to use one really good cassette deck for duplication directly from the masters. This is feasible (if a bit of a headache) as I'm talking about runs of a hundred or less, and I figure I can silk screen all the cassettes and then just record a few at a time as needed.

My main question has to do with length- if there's anyone here who has experience doing this, how do you handle trimming the length on a DIY basis? just record the longer side all the way and then pull out what's left on the supply reel and splice to the leader there, or what? Any tricks for doing this quickly or more efficiently?

Also, I've thought about recording both sides simultaneously using a unidirectional 4-track getting a foreward feed of side A and a backwards feed of side B at the same time... has anyone actually tried this? Problems with crosstalk, maybe?

I know I could spend a coupla quarters more per unit to just get these produced to spec, but it seems wasteful when I know I can produce a product that sounds just as good if I can just get the length thing figured out.

[mrclean]

So, I've recently decided that it might be a good idea to put out a number of releases on cassette. I'd like to sidestep the discussion about whether the format is still viable...

uh...who exactly still buys cassettes? I don't think you can sidestep the point. I don't know anyone who buys/uses cassettes anymore.

I was a big cassette user/buyer back in the day (I still have a large collection in the basement of commercially released cassettes that I never play). But I think is is really a dead format now.

[dsw]

If it were me, I'd not try to splice out the extra for worry of breakage later. I'd just try to buy tapes that are close in length to your master. Maybe you could find some extra material to fill any blank time leftover, out-takes, or something like that.

As far as people buying cassettes, lately there has been a cassette resurgence. At least here in Portland there is. It's mostly DIY small run. But then there's lots of trendy stuff around Portland like knitting and typing on typewriters that doesn't always last very long. So we'll see if cassette makes a comeback for reals or if its a passing fad.

[LazarusLong]

Until someone realizes that 8 tracks are more impractical and ridiculous, the cassette is here to stay in some circles.

[drumsound]

think this is a better idea:

[Theo_Karon]

Yeah, people are indisputably buying them, at least in these parts, and people keep telling us we should make them... like I said, I don't use them and I don't think they sound that great, but if people are going to buy and enjoy them I can't think of any reason why that's a bad thing.

I guess I'll just have to do some tests with splicing... I have some cassette loops that have held up under years of steady use, and those edits have run thru the transport a hell of a lot more times than a splice near the end on a full cassette is going to, so I'm not so worried about that. Maybe I can use a bicycle as a crank to pull the tape out really fast or something (that's the part I was more worried about... half an hour per cassette pulling out all that extra tape is just not going to fly.)

[drumsound]

I remember commercially produced cassettes have one side longer than the other as needed. Also why not buy cassette stock closer to the length you need. If there are still suppliers (are there?) than you should be able to get shorter tapes.

[Theo_Karon]

Drumsound and dsw, that's good advice... I've done some looking and there are a number of suppliers who make tapes in 5 or 15 minute length increments. Still, there's going to be a little extra at the end, and I'm very much into the idea of making any release to the highest standard of quality I'm able to for that particular format... I would imagine that just being able to flip the cassette over and hear side B immediately would make for a much better/less interrupted listening experience.

[drumsound]

Drumsound and dsw, that's good advice... I've done some looking and there are a number of suppliers who make tapes in 5 or 15 minute length increments. Still, there's going to be a little extra at the end, and I'm very much into the idea of making any release to the highest standard of quality I'm able to for that particular format... I would imagine that just being able to flip the cassette over and hear side B immediately would make for a much better/less interrupted listening experience.

That's true, but part of the cassette experience is the wait...

[drumsound]

Drumsound and dsw, that's good advice... I've done some looking and there are a number of suppliers who make tapes in 5 or 15 minute length increments. Still, there's going to be a little extra at the end, and I'm very much into the idea of making any release to the highest standard of quality I'm able to for that particular format... I would imagine that just being able to flip the cassette over and hear side B immediately would make for a much better/less interrupted listening experience.

That's true, but part of the cassette experience is the wait...

[ThePaloverdeBeetle]

Back in the day, It was customary for real time duplicators to buy custom loaded cassette lengths either for a specific job or to buy multiple lengths to accomodate any job. Once upon a time there were people with rooms full of Nakamichis doing real-time cassette duplication for the discerning content provider. There may still be some places out there that can custom load cassette tapes. It's been awhile since I've looked into anything like that. Of course if you only wanted to make a few, you'd probably have to buy a minimum quantity of pre-loaded cassettes. Hell, I figure cassette only releases have got to be casual enough that the user can just fast forward to through the excess tape.

[Theo_Karon]

Totally. That's definitely true, and probably nobody would really care, but I try to never let myself get comfortable with the phrase "well, it's good enough..." In some circles it seems like carefully making something that will be a 'product,' doing everything you can to make it good and working hard, is seen as anathema to everything DIY, and I've never understood that. What I draw from and respect about the punk/DIY ethic is the idea that you should do everything you possibly can to make something good using the means available to you. I don't mean to sound like I'm accusing you of anything here- I'm not!- but that's why I try to stay conscious of little decisions like this.

[LazarusLong]

Totally. That's definitely true, and probably nobody would really care, but I try to never let myself get comfortable with the phrase "well, it's good enough..." In some circles it seems like carefully making something that will be a 'product,' doing everything you can to make it good and working hard, is seen as anathema to everything DIY, and I've never understood that. What I draw from and respect about the punk/DIY ethic is the idea that you should do everything you possibly can to make something good using the means available to you. I don't mean to sound like I'm accusing you of anything here- I'm not!- but that's why I try to stay conscious of little decisions like this.

Yes! That's respectable and frankly admirable. Which is why it's confounding, too, to put in all that work for an admittedly crappy format. The group looking for the tapes is not terribly concerned with quality, it's more about the shock / fashion / irrelevance value. Maybe there's some other aspect of the project to pour all that conviction and drive into? Instead do a CD, but design really bitchin' non-standard packaging that can fulfill the vain needs of the crowd, without undermining your hard work and dedication. I want you to be able to fully reap the benefits of your dedication, instead of letting the release format undo that.

[Theo_Karon]

Don't worry! There are already CDs, and anything still-to-be-released that will be going out on cassettes will also be going out on CDs. We'll be pulling some long nights at No Coast, a local collective (www.no-coast.org- stop by if you're ever in Chicago, they've also got a rad consignment shop stocked with local music, zines, etc.) with a great silk screen print shop, to get all the packaging together. Hopefully we'll be using what we make from CD and cassette sales to get everything out on vinyl as well. So quality sound will be available, for people that care. I just feel like anything worth doing (and I guess if I've decided to do this that means I've decided it's worth doing) is worth doing as well as possible.

[dsw]

We used to have 100 Nakamichi's on a wall and did real time tape duplication. Then we got bin-loaders and custom made our own for years. Then the cassette market died and we sold the machinery for pennies on the dollar. That was 6 years ago.

To totally avoid any silence on your cassette, both sides have to be the same length. Because that so often is not the case, cassette listeners are used to a long silence on one side or the other. I think anybody who has listened to a lot of cassettes (certainly I have...) will not mind. It's commonplace.