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Nick Sevilla
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Post by Nick Sevilla » Sat Mar 13, 2010 11:04 pm

Keep it Simple.

1.- Water bottles. Water is essential to get clean plosives and clean transitions between phrases.

2.- Ask whether the singer likes light or dark environment for singing. Make it so.

3.- Ask whether singer is a morning or evening singer (as to when they sing the best), and book the session accordingly.

4.- Get plenty of headroom to give them a whopping vocal level, should they ask for it. I usually turn down the entire mix by 6 dB overall, just for the singer, so we don't distort the inputs nor the outputs ( who wants to listen to a distorted headphone mix? I do not)

5.- DO NOT LOOK AT THE SINGER WHILE THEY SING. I have my back turned to them, and focus on the sound / performance. Plus if no one is looking at them they can make funny faces and not feel guilty about it.

6.- NEVER make a singer sing more than 2-3 hours total for one day. Unless you want them to end up breaking their vocal chords.

7.- Try to record the whole song through from beginning to end, and also listen to the intros and endings, it really helps set the mood. Try to get up to 5 whole performances, and do not call them "takes" it belittles the singer's output.

8.- Comp from those 5 takes, and let the singer listen for a day or two, so they can decide whether a section or a few phrases need re-singing. LET THEM DECIDE.

9.- If any resinging is done, do it all again as whole performances, not punch-ins. I hate punch ins. Unnatural, they are... not at all like a live performance, which is what the singer should aim for, a PERFORMANCE, not a bunch of snippets stitched together.

Cheers
Howling at the neighbors. Hoping they have more mic cables.

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Post by jgimbel » Sun Mar 14, 2010 12:14 am

Another great post from noeqplease. I mostly record myself, but I still find so much of that to be true. Water is quite a magical tool when it comes to vocals. When I record anything, but especially for vocals, I turn off the fluorescents and turn on the incandescents I've got down here - those Ikea paper lamps, they're awesome. I sing best at night, pretty horribly in the morning generally. I turn my mixes down, vocals up in the phones. I even do much less than 2-3 hours usually. I generally don't do more than two separate mini-sessions for vocals in a day. For me it tends to be one of those "if it's there, it's there pretty quickly" kind of things. I usually do about 5 takes (er, performances) and work with them. And yeah, if I'm resinging, I'm redoing all of it. I had a time last week within one session, and between two recordings I coughed a number of times. The takes after that had a COMPLETELY different timbre, to the extend that it almost sounded like a different mic was up. I tend to comp a vocal track out of takes that are done within close proximity to eachother (time-wise). My first take will often not match my fifth take in energy level - though some of that has to do with figuring out exactly how to sing a part, so if it's well rehearsed beforehand that might not be as much of an issue.

One thing that I do for songs that are a little more delicate, or at least kind of rely on more perfect pitch, is sing with one earphone off, and generally I don't have the vocal level ridiculously high in the phones. That way I can hear the music as the reference for pitch, but listen to my actual voice for that fine-tuning. For louder songs/ones with more energy, I usually rely more on vocal sound in the headphones. Not being able to hear my actual voice makes me sing with more force, partially to make sure I can hear myself in the phones, but results in having more energy in the take.

So yeah everything noeqplease is things I do in the comfort of my own home studio, and if I were in someone else's studio and they were keen to all those thoughts, I'd be pretty impressed, and much more relaxed.

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Post by brahimplaysbass » Sun Mar 14, 2010 8:33 am

md421. done.

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Post by drumsound » Sun Mar 14, 2010 11:03 am

noeqplease wrote:Keep it Simple.

1.- Water bottles. Water is essential to get clean plosives and clean transitions between phrases.

2.- Ask whether the singer likes light or dark environment for singing. Make it so.

3.- Ask whether singer is a morning or evening singer (as to when they sing the best), and book the session accordingly.

4.- Get plenty of headroom to give them a whopping vocal level, should they ask for it. I usually turn down the entire mix by 6 dB overall, just for the singer, so we don't distort the inputs nor the outputs ( who wants to listen to a distorted headphone mix? I do not)

5.- DO NOT LOOK AT THE SINGER WHILE THEY SING. I have my back turned to them, and focus on the sound / performance. Plus if no one is looking at them they can make funny faces and not feel guilty about it.

6.- NEVER make a singer sing more than 2-3 hours total for one day. Unless you want them to end up breaking their vocal chords.

7.- Try to record the whole song through from beginning to end, and also listen to the intros and endings, it really helps set the mood. Try to get up to 5 whole performances, and do not call them "takes" it belittles the singer's output.

8.- Comp from those 5 takes, and let the singer listen for a day or two, so they can decide whether a section or a few phrases need re-singing. LET THEM DECIDE.

9.- If any resinging is done, do it all again as whole performances, not punch-ins. I hate punch ins. Unnatural, they are... not at all like a live performance, which is what the singer should aim for, a PERFORMANCE, not a bunch of snippets stitched together.

Cheers
There's some real gems in this post!

I disagree about comps versus punches though. Comps often sound disjointed to me. I like to have the singer get a full take thats good and fix a couple things they don't like.

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Nick Sevilla
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Post by Nick Sevilla » Sun Mar 14, 2010 11:34 am

drumsound wrote:There's some real gems in this post!

I disagree about comps versus punches though. Comps often sound disjointed to me. I like to have the singer get a full take thats good and fix a couple things they don't like.
Thanks drumsound,

When I do comps of vocals, I do try to keep whole sections together ie take an entire verse, then and entire chorus, to keep the flow going as smoothly as possible.

Sometimes I do have to acquiesce to the demands of the singer to replace a single word or syllable that is too out of pitch, but that rarely happens.

Some singers can punch in, but I find at least the less experienced ones can't do it right. It just sounds "punched in" because they do not match the intensity / emotion / vocal tone, for lack of a better term... so I have them sing a whole section at a minimum, or the whole song, if I can persuade them to do so. Usually this works best for my clients, so far so good.

Cheers
Howling at the neighbors. Hoping they have more mic cables.

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Secrets to Big Vocal Recordings

Post by acoosticzoo » Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:20 pm

In My Experience,

Be Super Supportive and Gentle to the Vocalist.

Be Positive in a reassuring way, build confidence.

Be fast with setup, better still, setup b4 client arrives.

Do 1-6 takes of each line.

Term of Recording.
--------------------
Use your best Condenser Mic, I love my Neumann M149 on Female Vocals.
Use a dead room - this prevent combing from internal room reflections.
USE a POP filter!!! really important.
Never EQ or compress the signal when recording. Saves time and doesn't keep the singer waiting.
Recording 24 bit 44kHz is plenty.
Check if removing one side of Headphones improves performance - some singers prefer 2 cans, some just one.

Terms of Mixing.
-----------------
Removing Sibiliance, Deesser on harsh freq, 6-10k
Add pitch widening technique. -6 cents left +6 cents right. then blend with original signal, watch for phasing.
Add a subtle aural exciter / harmonic enhancement @ 15khz. Careful not to overdue this.
Use Delays in sync with Beat.
Add ever so little a long vocal plate but deesser the signal feeding the reverb. to creates this smooth lush hi-end result.
Use 1176 with correct attack to give BITE to the vocals, play with the release to suit performance.
Regards
Josef Horhay
Mixing Engineer, Acoostic Zoo Recording Studio
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Nick Sevilla
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Re: Secrets to Big Vocal Recordings

Post by Nick Sevilla » Sun Mar 14, 2010 9:59 pm

acoosticzoo wrote:In My Experience,

Be Super Supportive and Gentle to the Vocalist.
Be Positive in a reassuring way, build confidence.
Be fast with setup, better still, setup b4 client arrives.
Do 1-6 takes of each line.

Term of Recording.
--------------------
Use your best Condenser Mic, I love my Neumann M149 on Female Vocals.
Use a dead room - this prevent combing from internal room reflections.
USE a POP filter!!! really important.
Never EQ or compress the signal when recording. Saves time and doesn't keep the singer waiting.
Recording 24 bit 44kHz is plenty.
Check if removing one side of Headphones improves performance - some singers prefer 2 cans, some just one.

Terms of Mixing.
-----------------
Removing Sibiliance, Deesser on harsh freq, 6-10k
Add pitch widening technique. -6 cents left +6 cents right. then blend with original signal, watch for phasing.
Add a subtle aural exciter / harmonic enhancement @ 15khz. Careful not to overdue this.
Use Delays in sync with Beat.
Add ever so little a long vocal plate but deesser the signal feeding the reverb. to creates this smooth lush hi-end result.
Use 1176 with correct attack to give BITE to the vocals, play with the release to suit performance.
Hi,

I agree on most of that.. except I don't make the singer sing line-by-line, stopping and starting the music is just so tedious. I try to make them pretend they are doing it live, in one shot. then they get more excited by trying harder to perform the way they want. I've even brought in an audience, once, for one singer that just had to have people looking while she sang. It worked.

As far as recording the vocal, I tend to have the following "rule" :

If the singer is bright and nasally, I tend to use a darker sounding mic, if the singer is dark sounding, I use a brighter mic. Sort of evens the frequencies a little.

And while mixing, I really have no idea what I'll do until mix time, and that goes on a song-by-song basis. I do not have a set signal chain, nor a favorite way of doing the vocal. It really matters what the song is, what is played on it, in order to make the vocals sit properly.

Cheers
Howling at the neighbors. Hoping they have more mic cables.

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Post by Peter Malick » Sun Mar 14, 2010 10:01 pm

When that awesome condenser is not cutting it,

Three words:

Ess Emm Seven
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Post by tommy » Sun Mar 14, 2010 11:46 pm

The singers best friend for an inspired performance is the perfect headphone mix at the perfect volume. The Furman HR-6 is great for this. Puts the mix in his or her hands.

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Post by cenafria » Mon Mar 15, 2010 4:01 am

I always try several microphones. Dynamics and ribbons often "beat" the more expensive condenser mics. I agree with the sm7b. I've had great luck with it. Also with white 421s and re20 (specially, female vocals for the EV). I like to know the band and the singers opinion. They usually have important insights to offer.

When trying out the different mics I like to hear them at the level they are going to be mixed with that particular band. It usually makes a big difference.

I (also) prefer a live room and stereo ambience recorded with two omni condensers together with the close vocal mic. It means three tracks for the main vocal but to me, it's worth it. Even if these tracks are not prominent in the mix, I don't need as much compression and the vocal sits better in the mix (doesn't need as many fader moves). These ambient tracks have often served as a predelay for the vocal fx by sending the ambience and not the close mic.


I've recently discovered the Josephson c700a. This microphone deserves an entire book written about it by true experts on the subject, but I will say I have found it an outstanding microphone for vocal recording. I'll just add I've used c12, c24, u48, u67, u87, u89, sm69, c12a, older 414, um57, cmv563 so I'm familiar with microphones that are usually considered "good" on vocals.

I work a lot faster if I have a lyric sheet in front of me.

I really enjoy recording vocals at the same time as the band is recording everything else when possible. Specially when the vocalist doesnt play anything loud and can sing in another live room. Sight lines to the rest of the band are essential. Performances are great and it knocks a day off the recording schedule.

Turning the live room into an echo chamber for the mixing is very effective, specially when tape predelay is available. It often "wins" when compared to a 140 plate. Hi and lo pass filters on the send are important for this.

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Post by jgimbel » Mon Mar 15, 2010 6:49 am

+1 to trying multiple mics like cenafria said. It sounds pretty obvious to always try multiple mics, and not get stuck in using the same mic over and over for the same job (without making sure you don't have something that's a better fit). But I think it's easy to rely on one mic for vocals. I'm recording mostly myself so I've got one mic that I generally think sounds better for my vocals, but when something's not right, I like to try other mics before going to EQ. I recorded a song two days ago and I could not get a decent vocal sound. I tried my go to mic, and it just wasn't putting the vocals in the right range in the song. I tried my second favorite, same issue. It was really strange since I usually have everything covered between those two. I ended up trying about five different mics, and realized that the only way I was getting close to the right sound was to pull a LOT of mids out. So using the whole method of addressing what the problem is and fixing that, I ended up using an AKG D112! That was a first. But it was absolutely perfect. I don't know that anyone would guess that's what was used. I guess it's just the combination of the parts played in the song that left a very specific hole in the frequencies that wasn't in the spot it normally tends to be in my songs. It would have been easy to just stick with the mic I use most often, but it would have been a situation where I'm convincing myself "this is a good mic, so it should sound good". AKA a case of "hey idiot, trust your ears".

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Post by Z-Plane » Mon Mar 15, 2010 7:05 am

Right. Did one session with some songwriters finishing a handful of pop tracks for the publishers. Music all done, session singer doing well, one special edition C12 rented by request, and after a full day the sound of the vocals started to niggle them. I was getting asked to check everything in the path from wall plates through to tape heads, and I got out a Rode NT1 as an excuse to check the signal path. You know the rest.

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Post by wren » Mon Mar 15, 2010 7:24 am

cenafria wrote:I (also) prefer a live room and stereo ambience recorded with two omni condensers together with the close vocal mic. It means three tracks for the main vocal but to me, it's worth it. Even if these tracks are not prominent in the mix, I don't need as much compression and the vocal sits better in the mix (doesn't need as many fader moves). These ambient tracks have often served as a predelay for the vocal fx by sending the ambience and not the close mic.
That reminds me: someone recently told me about a thing that Tony Visconti apparently did on a Bowie record or three: he set up a close mic and a couple ambient mics (different distances), then gated the ambient mics so that when Bowie was singing quietly, all that was used was the close-mic'd, intimate sound, when he sang a little louder the closer ambient mic would come in, and when he really belted it out the farther ambient mic would kick on. I hadn't heard of that trick before until a couple weeks ago, and I thought it was neat and worth mentioning. There's a whole ton of cool variations on it that would probably be really fun to try.
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Post by jgimbel » Mon Mar 15, 2010 7:40 am

wren wrote:
cenafria wrote:I (also) prefer a live room and stereo ambience recorded with two omni condensers together with the close vocal mic. It means three tracks for the main vocal but to me, it's worth it. Even if these tracks are not prominent in the mix, I don't need as much compression and the vocal sits better in the mix (doesn't need as many fader moves). These ambient tracks have often served as a predelay for the vocal fx by sending the ambience and not the close mic.
That reminds me: someone recently told me about a thing that Tony Visconti apparently did on a Bowie record or three: he set up a close mic and a couple ambient mics (different distances), then gated the ambient mics so that when Bowie was singing quietly, all that was used was the close-mic'd, intimate sound, when he sang a little louder the closer ambient mic would come in, and when he really belted it out the farther ambient mic would kick on. I hadn't heard of that trick before until a couple weeks ago, and I thought it was neat and worth mentioning. There's a whole ton of cool variations on it that would probably be really fun to try.
That sounds similar to something I found a while ago that I think someone just mentioned recently on a thread here. Basically the same thing but rather than gating the ambient mic you're somewhat heavily compressing the close mic (I think..I'm not sure if I'm thinking of this right). But that way when the singer is loud in the close mic that's being pulled back a bit, but the ambient mic picks it up a lot more, so those loud notes kind of bloom with room sound. I did a recording in a big room a while ago and I wasn't doing that on purpose, but when I heard it on playback I thought it sounded really interesting. The way you mentioned seemed like it'd have a somewhat similar result despite being an almost opposite sounding technique. Good stuff, I'll have to try it!

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Post by JohnDavisNYC » Mon Mar 15, 2010 7:42 am

that's the vocal sound on the song heroes.

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