Joel Hamilton drum mic technique?

[Archmart]

Hey Hey!

What's that drum micing trick, apparently involving a Bova Ball over the drummer's Right shoulder and a U47 above the kick, between the rack tom and floor tom/ride?

Having that idea in the back of my mind, it occurred to me that perhaps an M150 could work in place of the Bova, and in any case, I'm intrigued by the idea, but haven't been able to find it fully explained.

Thanks,
Archmart

[JohnDavisNYC]

Joel is in Africa right now, but having been on many a session with him, both in assistant and collaborative roles, it's not a 'trick' at all, it's just one of the ways to set up mics...

the bova is usually in the corner at studio g peeking over the drummer's shoulder, and the u47 is a room mic usually about 3-6 feet in front of the kit, at chest height, sort of aiming at the center of the kit (hence the 'between the rack tom and ride' part of your question)... it's not 'in the kit', just in front looking at it.

there really isn't anything to it, except that part of the mic placement ritual involves chanting, a goat, a full moon, and moby. without those 4 things, it'll never work.

Joel will probably chime in when he finishes making a satellite dish out of a hubcap and an elephant tusk so he can get online...

john

[Archmart]

Hey Hey!

Do I understand correctly that the Bova's positioned such that the drummer's torso actually sort of casts a shadow, keeping the high-hat out of that mic, but still catching the snare?

And the U47 room mic at 3-6 feet out... That's not centered on the kick, then, but a little off to the drummer's Right?

What's typical panning on these? (This is a "sometimes other close mics/overheads aren't even needed, situation, right?)

Thanks,
Archmart

[parasitk]

Maybe these threads will help a bit too.

http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopic.php?t=43668
http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopic.php?t=39813

[JohnDavisNYC]

there is nothing really clever or complicated going on.

the 47 is right in front of the kit.

the bova is behind the drummer's right shoulder.

they get recorded.

they get used in the mix, or they don't.

not trying to sound dismissive, just that there isn't anything crazy like measuring angles and heights and distances... just 2 mics out of a multimic setup...

john

[Archmart]

Hey Hey!

It's all good.

I guess I'm still scratching my head just because I've always done stereo pairs of overheads and then stereo pairs as room mics. If we're talking a single mic over the shoulder (and from the first of those threads - thanks, by the way - it sounds like the Bova's looking straight out across the room, basically AT the U47?) and another out front of the kit, is one getting panned hard left and one hard right or are they kept centered or what?

Thanks,
Archmart

[lyman]

there is nothing really clever or complicated going on.

the 47 is right in front of the kit.

the bova is behind the drummer's right shoulder.

what's the goat doing during all of this?

[chris harris]

Pan them to where they sound cool. I don't think that those mics are placed so as to maintain any kind of accurate stereo image or anything. They're just single mics that can be panned to taste.

[fossiltooth]

there is nothing really clever or complicated going on.

the 47 is right in front of the kit.

the bova is behind the drummer's right shoulder.

what's the goat doing during all of this?

Being smote into a burnt offering by sheer awesomeness.

John's posts are pretty spot-on here. F.O.K. mics and behind-the-drummer mics can be pretty neat. They're no secret. You can conceptualize what these sources are doing and why you dig them in any number of ways. Knowing Joel, I'm sure he'll have a cool way of describing it. But in the end, it's an intellectual exercise, like talking about a decent wine or the perfect ham sandwich.

I guess I'm still scratching my head just because I've always done stereo pairs of overheads and then stereo pairs as room mics. If we're talking a single mic over the shoulder (and from the first of those threads - thanks, by the way - it sounds like the Bova's looking straight out across the room, basically AT the U47?) and another out front of the kit, is one getting panned hard left and one hard right or are they kept centered or what?

I'd imagine a big part of what creates his "sound" are his personal tastes. If you or I put up the same kinds of mics in similar positions we'd probably end up with something pretty different based on how we instinctively choose to push them, balance them, swivel them, or process them.

For what it's worth, I've seen Joel in the studio, and he's entirely unbashful about trusting where his ear tells him to go. If there's any magic in all of this, it's right there. Do your own thing! When you ask this kind of thing it's helpful to remember to look for ideas, not answers.

[Archmart]

when you ask this kind of thing it's helpful to remember to look for ideas, not answers.

Absolutely...

[Snarl 12/8]

There's videos linked from this thread that might shed some light on how Joel does his thing...

http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopi ... =diva+gash

[losthighway]

I think (here goes standard tapeop speak sorry) it is important to realize that room mics are a spicy way to get sound. The selection and placement of that room mic are infinitely variable and while a Bova Ball and a U47 are some very cool microphones, part of the deal is that weird shaped, wood studded room that is Studio G. You might measure and put the same mics in the same place in my room and find that it sounds just meh, and that a SDC two feet off the ground and eight feet out pointed at the drummers nostril sounds better.

The trick is to move things around and listen. The key spot in different rooms is different. Behind the shoulder and six feet out front would be a great starting place, then you get to play drums and have fun.... see what happens.

[@?,*???&?]

Isn't Joel's method- Use mics, get a sound?

It could be no more simple really, but I think I first heard that from Jim Scott...

Joel, you're biting his lines man.

[Artifex]

Isn't Joel's method- Use mics, get a sound?

It could be no more simple really, but I think I first heard that from Jim Scott...

Joel, you're biting his lines man.

So far Joel has had nothing to do with this thread...

[dsw]

Would that be a tube goat or a solid state goat? I really want to get this one right...