Pro-Tools vs Pro-Tools LE

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dsw
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Post by dsw » Tue May 18, 2010 1:21 pm

Logic and Pro Tools both have their bug-a-boos. Pro Tools is better for editing and mixing. Logic is better for composing. Big studios use Pro Tools 10 to 1.
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red cross
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Post by red cross » Tue May 18, 2010 1:47 pm

Unless you are running a commercial space that can recoup your expenses, it is financial stupidity to buy a HD system for your personal use. If you are comfortable with Logic, my advice is to stick with it. Buy a used Metric Halo 2882 if you really want to upgrade your converters. Getting a Black Lion 002/003 makes little sense if you don't plan on running PT.

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Post by Dakota » Tue May 18, 2010 6:47 pm

Re: 002r vs 003r.

If it's not going to be modded, the 003r sounds better.

If getting a BLA mod, BLA themselves think the modded 002r edges out the modded 003r, due to changes in the chips and whatever the factors are. Ask them, they are communicative and cool.

002r is cheaper. Math says: go with cheaper and sounds better.

Re: digi/avid stopping support on those at some point. Evs. Everything in a DAW will be obsolete at some point. I'm working now.

Re: logic vs PT. Either is fine, both are considered pro-normal. Sessions are cross-studio compatible faster in most cases with PT. Most of what I get coming through are PT sessions, both HD and LE.

A BLA mod 002r can work with both logic and/or PTLE. (PTLE will only open when connected to digi/avid hardware, but digi harware can be used with any other DAW). Options stay open, you could install and use both DAWS on the same computer. (Assuming mac).

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Post by L-ROX » Wed May 19, 2010 10:37 am

I mix and master with PTLE, here's my 2 cents:

I'm not sure I would call it the "industry standard." I work primarily with hip hop artists and independent labels and some people work with Logic, some with Cubase, etc. etc. Pro Tools LE is VERY common among users, and most commercial studios have PTHD.

I use PTLE because I don't run a commercial recording studio, only mix and master. I don't think the HD AD/DAs are considered "mastering grade", so what I'm doing is using a 002r and bypassing the converters by sending the SPDIF signal out of the 002r into a Cranesong HEDD and from the HEDD, to a Cranesong Avocet for my DAC/Monitor Controller. In my opinion, for what I do, this is a better set up than investing in an HD rig, as I have a small analog chain and only need a Stereo setup.

Recently, I had a chance to work with a DJ who is pretty much legendary in the world of hip hop. He produces his tunes in Reason on a Mac and dumps the audio tracks into Pro Tools LE using a Digi 01. He's on an older version of Pro Tools LE and it doesn't matter because most Pro Tools systems (after 6.9 I believe) are backwards-compatible.

Someone said LE doesn't sound as good as HD on the mix buss, that to me is not exactly accurate. I believe that's an issue with the types of converters available for LE versus HD and in that context, yes, the HD converters are better. If you're using high-end converters, LE can sound extremely good.

The same goes for HD plugins versus LE plugins, it depends on the quality of the effects and the DA conversion you are listening to. I use mostly UAD effects (4 UAD-1s and 2 UAD-2s) and they sound thousands of times better over my Cranesong DAC than they do using the DAC on the 002r.

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Post by digitaldrummer » Wed May 19, 2010 11:33 am

the interface...

you didn't really say how many tracks you need to record simultaneously - as a drummer, I had to go with the 002r (and an expansion via the ADAT) when i bought, but an mbox2 could be sufficient if you never record more than 4 tracks at a time (you can still mix up to 48 with PTLE 8.x).

also, do you have outboard equipment (pres, compressors, efx, etc) that you need to plug in? Or just using plugins in the box?

Edit: - as noted below, the Avid/Digi interfaces are somewhat locked or at least proprietary - ASIO drivers may work, but for others they may not.

I also advise getting a separate computer for your DAW and keep it off the internet (who needs a virus?) and don't load other crap on it. Load your DAW software and plugins only. use an external drive or USB stick to move files.

the software...

I use PTLE because for me the workflow made sense and came pretty easy - that may not be the same for all, but there are a ton of tutorials and books out there on Pro Tools - and mostly they work the same for LE or HD

I would cast my vote to Pro Tools still being the standard - like it or not. If you take your entire session and your iLok to another studio, it should work the same. If you go back and forth between apps (lets say you have logic and they have PT) then you have to consolidate your tracks as WAV files, commit any plug-in sounds to that (i.e., bounce it or whatever) if you want it to sound the same on the other platform. maybe not a big deal though - I do it all the time for people.

yeah, theres no delay compensation and sometimes it can be a problem. my workaround is that I don't use plug-ins with huge latency, or I copy the track and audiosuite it (and save the original as a backup) or I only put those types of plugin on the master fader. or if you have the cpu power, you can put the same plug on all tracks and bypass it or leave it flat -then all tracks are delayed the same amount. most of the other plugs I use have small latency and don't really cause a noticeable problem for me.

and if you got with Logic you have to get a Mac - no version for Windows (but again maybe not an issue if you like that kind of thing)

ok, that's my $0.02
Mike
Last edited by digitaldrummer on Thu May 20, 2010 8:51 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Nick Sevilla » Thu May 20, 2010 8:30 am

Hi Anthony, it's noeqplease again.

I have PT HD, PT LE, and Logic Studio 9.

If you are going to keep using Logic, and I recommend you do because you compose, then do yourself a favor and get a MOTU interface.

The thing about Pro Tools interfaces, is that they can be finicky about being used with Logic, the HD hardware no longer supports Logic Studio 9 with TDM, and the LE audio drivers could be better.

With the MOTU interface, of which I own a Motu 828 mk3, it really can get you a better conversions than the US122 that you have now, which I also have used for touring, back when it came out 8 years ago.

As far as other "gear", you really should spend some time listening to different microphones until you find the one or two that fit your bill. No one here can really tell you what those mics will be.

I can tell you, I own over 60 microphones. I use them ALL regularly. They all have good sounds and good uses. From a cheap cassette recorder mic, to my pair of Telefunken U47s, I am able to determine what to use, because that is what I do 100% of the time.

For you, depending on your budget considerations, I would have you do the following:

Try the following mics :

AKG 414 (any model)
Peluso 22 47 LE or 22 47.
AKG C12VR modified by an expert (the originals go for about 2250, plus the mods to make them sound good). This is the gold and green AKG mic seen on a lot of videos.
MXL Mogami Edition V67 mic. Seriously. I owned three, now I own two, and will love them forever. They are only 300 bucks, but they do what a much better mic does.

As far as mic preamplifiers, since you are not decided yet, try buying a "500 Series" lunchbox, a 6 space one, and buy individual modules to check them out. The good thing is that these retain their value over the long haul, o if you want to need to exchange them for something else, you don't shell out a lot of dough to do it.

On this web forum there is a part where there is a list of manufacturers, and a lot of people on here use them, so you can get some pointers

http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopic.php?t=49035

Cheers
Howling at the neighbors. Hoping they have more mic cables.

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Apogee?

Post by krabdagger » Sun May 23, 2010 12:57 pm

PT HD is a money pit. I wouldn't do it unless you're planning on recording for a living full time for the next decade on it to recoup expenses.

An apogee ensemble is like 1/8th the price of a PT HD setup and sounds just as good. Great converters, solid pre's and expandable. Paired with logic it works flawlessly. Plus Apogee has great customer support.

As for Avid...eh.

Just my $.02
Act the way you'd like to be and soon you'll be the way you act. -Leonard Cohen

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Re: Apogee?

Post by Nick Sevilla » Sun May 23, 2010 7:00 pm

krabdagger wrote:PT HD is a money pit. I wouldn't do it unless you're planning on recording for a living full time for the next decade on it to recoup expenses.

An apogee ensemble is like 1/8th the price of a PT HD setup and sounds just as good. Great converters, solid pre's and expandable. Paired with logic it works flawlessly. Plus Apogee has great customer support.

As for Avid...eh.

Just my $.02
I agree, unless you are going to use the PT HD rig full time to engineer records, you really should stay away from it. It is not cheap to get it...

Cheers
Howling at the neighbors. Hoping they have more mic cables.

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Post by bantam » Mon May 24, 2010 7:20 am

delay compensation is a pian unless you use only the stock digi plugs (no delay for most of them), you dont use plugins, or you use mellowmuse ATA to automatically delay your tracks. not very elegant but works and is easier than nudging or calculating time shifter delays

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iamthecosmos
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Post by iamthecosmos » Tue May 25, 2010 12:53 am

Having used PTLE and Logic I would vote overwhelmingly for Logic and a Motu interface. The mk3 828 is excellent for the money.

I don't think the editing is much worse than Pro Tools these days, I've really got into the quick-swipe edits. If you work on projects elsewhere with PT or whatever it's not a problem to make stems of the tracks you're working on, and the process forces you to be aware of bit-depth and sample rate and so on.

I know it's not a problem for some people but the lack of delay compensation on PTLE is a huge downside for me. I've also never forgotten the shock of seeing how much the HD systems cost.

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Post by Ernest Buckley » Sat May 29, 2010 11:31 am

noeqplease wrote:As far as mic preamplifiers, since you are not decided yet, try buying a "500 Series" lunchbox, a 6 space one, and buy individual modules to check them out. The good thing is that these retain their value over the long haul, o if you want to need to exchange them for something else, you don't shell out a lot of dough to do it.

On this web forum there is a part where there is a list of manufacturers, and a lot of people on here use them, so you can get some pointers

http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopic.php?t=49035

Cheers
+1 For versatility, the 500 series is a great way to go.

I`m assuming you do Hip Hop because you said you "make beats", I would get an Avalon 737 first. I know many people have their gripes with this pre but I own two of them. They are clean and lack "character" as many say but to me, getting a clean signal is key. I can fudge around with it later with EQ and whatnot so to me the 737 is a great tool to any studio and the EQ on it is excellent.

I also use REASON and love it. It works flawlessly with DP. Have you considered LIVE for your composing? As for PTLE vs PTHD, thats about convertors, I have yet to hear a DAW affect audio. If some software made audio sound better, it would cost a lot more than most. Think about it.

I think at the end of the day you have to ask yourself, "Who am I working with and who do I want to work with?" What do they use? That will answer a lot of questions.

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