Physical Copies, Yes or No? And if yes, what kind?

[JES]

I just finished a recording from an old band. We had originally planned on an all-online release via bandcamp and maybe iTunes, since we no longer exist or live in the same town. But it turns out that almost everyone I have spoken with has expressed interest in a physical copy, and I notice that indy people still seem to take physical product more seriously than digital releases, even though there is no good reason to do so.

I'm wondering how seriously we should take this. We're not planning a reunion tour or in it for money. If fact we really don't care about getting paid.

But we both have musical and artistic careers that have gone on since this record and it would be nice to have something we can be proud of and show to people. I get the sense the record would be more listened to both in our social scene and by strangers if it had a physical form.

So, failing a label sweeping us up (unlikely), I gather my options are:

--short run CD or CD-R duplication (opinions on cost/benefit of CD or CD-R would be appreciated)

--totally DIY CD-R burning with some kind of label, in some kind of homemade package.

What would you do? We both have current music projects going, but neither of us "play out" in any regular or conventional sense.

If it matters, I'm in Canada, and he's in the US and neither of us lives in the city where we played together.

[kslight]

Anything less than a 1000 pieces is more than likely a CDR unless they really stick it to you in costs...so assume anything less than a 1000 is duplication and over 1000 is replication (a true CD as you would buy in a store). So unless you really plan on selling hundreds then DIY is probably better...or maybe DIY 50 or so and if you find you can't keep up with demand then consider having someone else make them. The difference between a CD and a CDR is more along the lines of reliability, you may have some that don't play (if you have a good burner though, and pay attention as you make them you'll probably be fine), and some players just don't play CDRs. I've never had discs returned to me but something to think about. Unless you are fine with spending $1000+ on a bunch of discs that could easily sit in your closet for all eternity, I personally think a CDR is worth the risk of having a couple that don't work. Also most retailers will not sell a CDR...so if you plan on putting your disc in a physical store, this might be an issue.


How seriously you should take it should be based on how seriously you take it. If you know you will struggle to sell CDs...I wouldn't suggest having 1000 made. Especially if you don't plan on playing shows or promoting yourself (and is the project over...?) then I would strictly go with a DIY CDR package made to order for people that want it, and go on iTunes or just put it up for free download on your website.

But I'm not totally clear on how large you are saying your fanbase is?


Put into perspective, I had a regional playing band that drew between 25 and 200 people at any given show, we heavily street and online promoted, had 10000+ friends on Myspace, released one EP and one album, and struggled to sell more than 50 CDs over our 2 year lifespan. We went the DIY route because neither of us could see selling a 1000 CDs...and we both work in the printing industry so we put together some nice looking discs just a few at a time. I bought a cheap inkjet printer that could print on CDRs, and it actually looked really nice but with ink cost about $1 per disc...and I already had some chipboard CD cases that I got from someone in a trade, then we printed a sticker for the front and back, and made an insert, shrinkwrapped it.. We charged $5 for an EP and $7 for the LP. We weren't out for money just did it for fun.


Another band I know that is signed to The End records, is a side project of a big name major label artist, has toured the United States including being the tour opener for Stone Sour, and toured Europe with Lacuna Coil, and been around for 3 years...draws easily 250+ every show they play, has still only sold 1200 ish CDs... They have released two EPs and one album. I'm just not sure that people buy CDs much anymore.

[Waltz Mastering]

I'd just go with 50 or 100 small run, and print more as you need them.

On cd color printing in a slim line with a two panel insert should be a round $2 each. In a sleeve just over a buck...

[joninc]

nationwidedisc.com

cheap short runs - even in digipacks - make 100 for like $300.

sell it on bandcamp too - do a pre-order of your cd with instant download to generate some sales before making it available for download only.

that's what i am doing - with a short run of vinyl rather than cds - pre order for 2 months before you can just download.... http://jonathaninc.bandcamp.com/

[Brett Siler]

Unless people that buy your albums are mid late 30's and older I would highly suggest to stay away from pressing CD's. Anymore people just dump it on to their iTunes and put the CD in a desk somewhere. For most people the CD is just a shiny disk that is storing the digital files they want on their iPod. If you are gonna make a physical copy make it a vinyl other wise just do it digital. If you do decide to do CD's get a very short run that is very inexpensive, that you know for a fact you'll get rid of quickly. Believe me I just had to have to talk with our label owner and how CD's aren't selling and who was gonna pay for all the debt.

[dgrieser]

I've had 2 CDs duplicated by CD Poster Shop www.cdpostershop.com and they look great and we've had no problems with playability. They do short runs--we've ordered 100 at a time. You can just upload everything--artwork in their templates and audio files. Excellent prices, service, and quality--they offer many different packaging options (including barcodes) or just bulk disks if you want to do your own packaging. NFI, just a very happy customer.

[JES]

Hi everyone,

Thanks for the replies, these are some really helpful options. Actually, a large portion of our audience (like almost all of it) is probably mid 30s or older (we are too), which is why we're getting the question about a physical disc.

I'm thinking of these more as calling cards than as a means to make money, so the short run CD-R route, if it looks good, is probably the way to go. Though Oasis' 300 CDs for $600 isn't bad; I just don't know if we'll give away 150 each.

[timcoalman]

InvalidInk:

For most people the CD is just a shiny disk that is storing the digital files they want on their iPod.

perfect -

and in current trends, how long until MP3s are just digital versions of people's favorite advertisement music.

my wife and I moved a few months ago and last week got around to hooking up 300 disc cd changer through studio monitors - never thought that set-up would feel like audiophile indulgence.

love my ipod for listening to This American Life though...

[@?,*???&?]

Two thoughts:

1. If it's an online only release, expect to earn around $8 to $15 per quarter in sales if the band is no longer together and touring and the band never had any notoriety or success.

2. 75% of music consumers prefer to buy a hard copy of the product. While the number might be decreasing, this is a statistic from CD Baby in the last several months.

[Brett Siler]

Two thoughts:

1. If it's an online only release, expect to earn around $8 to $15 per quarter in sales if the band is no longer together and touring and the band never had any notoriety or success.

2. 75% of music consumers prefer to buy a hard copy of the product. While the number might be decreasing, this is a statistic from CD Baby in the last several months.

1. True, if that even.

2. True, again but like I said unless the demographic is mid 30's and up the preferred physical medium is vinyl. I take this from my personal experience of working in a record store for a few years and being in bands and working at venue for the past decade and just researching da bizz. There is a weird trend of cassettes coming back, but I give that two years tops.

[JES]

I released some stuff on cassettes in the late 80s and early 90s. Never. Fucking. Again. I am SO not nostalgic for cassettes.

[ott0bot]

I have to agree that vinyl seems to be the preferred physical format for most people in my group of friends aged roughly 28-40. I still buy cd's here and there and I have a rather large collection combined with the my wife's stuff. I generally just transfer them to the computer and listen on my iPod in the car and on trips. Occasionally I'll pop a cd into my Blu-Ray player and rock it on the stereo, but most times it's vinyl, here and there I'll rock a cassette though. Most friends I visit either put on a record or it's digital.

That being said......it's seem a small run on CD-R's seems most viable in this instance....then provide download code for bandcamp with the cd purchase. Just my two cents.

[wren]

There is a weird trend of cassettes coming back, but I give that two years tops.

This fad, in my opinion, is proof that there will also be a resurgence in the popularity of recording using ADATs/DATs at some point. It probably won't last long, but it's coming.

[ott0bot]

There is a weird trend of cassettes coming back, but I give that two years tops.

This fad, in my opinion, is proof that there will also be a resurgence in the popularity of recording using ADATs/DATs at some point. It probably won't last long, but it's coming.

I kind of doubt it. The cassette trend tends to be geared towards people doing 4 track/8 track recording using Tascams and keeping things pretty lo-fi...at least here in Phoenix anyway. People who are using simple technology to make music. ADAT/DAT don't seem to be on the radar of this group of people, for a number of reasons. Mostly though because these people grew up with casettes and are using them mostly for nostalgic purposes. I'm not sure anyone has a nostalgic view of DAT tapes since they weren't used at the consumer level. Hey I could be wrong though.

[wren]

There is a weird trend of cassettes coming back, but I give that two years tops.

This fad, in my opinion, is proof that there will also be a resurgence in the popularity of recording using ADATs/DATs at some point. It probably won't last long, but it's coming.

I kind of doubt it. The cassette trend tends to be geared towards people doing 4 track/8 track recording using Tascams and keeping things pretty lo-fi...at least here in Phoenix anyway. People who are using simple technology to make music. ADAT/DAT don't seem to be on the radar of this group of people, for a number of reasons. Mostly though because these people grew up with casettes and are using them mostly for nostalgic purposes. I'm not sure anyone has a nostalgic view of DAT tapes since they weren't used at the consumer level. Hey I could be wrong though.

There are a whole bunch of hipsters about my age (22) who are getting into cassettes and cassette recording technology right now not because they've had experience with them in the past but because they're a hip, in "old, lofi" medium. I anticipate a similar thing with digital tape, especially given the gear's prices. Not as a consumer format, but as a bragging "I-recorded-my-album-on-just-a-_____" sort of thing.

I could totally be wrong. It's happened many a time before. I just know that a) I'm one of the few people my age that I know who remembers cassette 4-tracks and DAT tapes, and thus has absolutely no desire to go back there, and b) if someone had told me a couple years ago that cassettes would suddenly become the new, hip, "in" preferred music medium amongst a certain demographic I wouldn't have believed them simply because the idea seemed so stupid to me.

/thread derail.