Why track vocals with compressor into a 24 bit system?

[casey campbell]

13. Anything you accomplish with compression in the tracking stage, can be more effectively and safely accomplished in the mixing stage. So, why chance it?

Answer: 'cause I'm not a chicken-shit and my ears work.

it still doesn't make the statement untrue. and does your ears work just as well after an 8 hour tracking session? i dunno. maybe so for you.

[casey campbell]

All of those are great reasons to make sure you know what you're doing when using a compressor. All of those are good reasons to listen carefully to what it's doing to your signal. But, none of them are really reasons to NEVER use compression during tracking.

I won't point out the logical fallacy in each one. But, I will suggest that when you start firing off advice to someone under the moronic assumption that they are a dumbass who can't understand their own gear, or can't possibly afford good gear, or aren't smart enough to listen to what they're recording and make a determination if they think it sounds better or worse, you come off looking like an ass. percussion boy has 1355 posts on this forum in the last SEVEN YEARS! Get off your high horse! There's no trophy for Strictest Adherence To The Rules.

Almost everyone in this thread responded with an appropriate approximation of the correct answer, "it depends", except for you. You are the one who came in with dogma. And, your inability to defend that dogma resulted in this ridiculous exchange.

In your attempt to prove that it's a "bad idea" to compress on the way in, you've failed. You can keep your dogma. But, just like all dogma, when you try to push it off on others, no matter how noble the intention, you should be prepared for push back from folks who don't need those kind of rules to guide them in their journey.

i didn't come up with a dogma. that's ridiculous. i put out a statement playing devils advocate as to stress that maybe it's not always the preferable thing to do just because you've always done it that way.

then i was told that i haven't come up with any real reasons why. so i did. now that's being attacked by the super heroes of compression. this is so really strange.

i tell you what...if you want to win just for the sake of winning..that's ok. all of my points are still valid. all you guys can do is try and tear each one down, but it doesn't make them any less valid.

you guys seem to be the dogmatic ones. you have resorted to making fun and calling names, but can't come up with a solid argument as to why one should use a compressor during tracking.

and the other 12 points remain...

good day gents.

[casey campbell]

that list REEKS of bad recording advice posted to the internet by a community college audio professor.

in trying to help the OP, who may be a novice, you're instilling a lot of fear of normal, everyday problems in the world of audio engineering.

nah, im not a community college professor. I am an engineer with 20 years experience with over 100 albums under my belt. maybe i have a little experience?

im not instilling fear, i said that "these are things you might want to consider."

i gave reasons as to why using a compressor could be a bad idea. or even more importantly why it's not necessary. subatomic keeps bringing that up, but he hasn't given one reason why it IS necessary.

[thethingwiththestuff]

also, i would like for you to explain proper gain structuring in recording. betcha you can't without looking it up! what about signal flow? describe for me basic signal flow in an analog console, including insert points...and how this can degrade your audio signal.

hey, you know what, fuck you. you're a real asshole.

[casey campbell]

also, i would like for you to explain proper gain structuring in recording. betcha you can't without looking it up! what about signal flow? describe for me basic signal flow in an analog console, including insert points...and how this can degrade your audio signal.

hey, you know what, fuck you. you're a real asshole.

you again are resorting to just calling names, but don't have a solid argument.

[Bro Shark]

Ha, ha, ha.

I just checked in on this thread and you guys are arguing (fighting) about compression and gain staging.

[Jay Reynolds]

13. Anything you accomplish with compression in the tracking stage, can be more effectively and safely accomplished in the mixing stage. So, why chance it?

Answer: 'cause I'm not a chicken-shit and my ears work.

it still doesn't make the statement untrue. and does your ears work just as well after an 8 hour tracking session? i dunno. maybe so for you.

My ears prolly get worn out like everyone else's. But the minute that starts to affect my decision-making is the minute I call the session. And I'm not really in the habit of calling sessions short of catastrophic gear/facilities failure.

But then again, taken with the "truth" inherent in your statement that it's "safer" to track dry, I'm a loose cannon who takes insane risks with his client's art and money. Just this week our studio manager called me into his office to demand my gun and shield. This was because my fly-by-night attitude had seen my partner land in the ICU after a bad bust during a guitar overdub session. I slammed my firearm and badge down on his desk and told him "you can take me off the force, but you can't take me off the case!"

[chris harris]

all i am saying is in general, it could be more preferable not to track with a compressor.

That's not what you were saying at all. You were saying that you should NEVER track with a compressor and that it's a BAD IDEA. Now the tone has changed to "could be more preferable not to"!?!?! HAHAHAHA!!!!! Be careful! Backpedaling can be dangerous!

You're going down in flames and it feels kinda sad now. I'd feel bad for this epic failure of logic and reason if not for you being so condescending and arrogant. So, I'm in full agreement with thethingwiththestuff regarding the kind of person you are and what you can do to yourself.

[chris harris]

BTW, I never suggested or said anywhere that it IS necessary to track with compression. If you can find one instance of me making that statement, I'll gladly continue this discussion with you. If not, I'll assume that you're incapable of continuing. But, what I won't do is continue to argue vs. a moving target with a tendency to just make shit up to argue against.

[metanoiastudios]

Man, a lot of you people need to go back to Gearslutz or something

[casey campbell]

13. Anything you accomplish with compression in the tracking stage, can be more effectively and safely accomplished in the mixing stage. So, why chance it?

Answer: 'cause I'm not a chicken-shit and my ears work.

it still doesn't make the statement untrue. and does your ears work just as well after an 8 hour tracking session? i dunno. maybe so for you.

My ears prolly get worn out like everyone else's. But the minute that starts to affect my decision-making is the minute I call the session. And I'm not really in the habit of calling sessions short of catastrophic gear/facilities failure.

But then again, taken with the "truth" inherent in your statement that it's "safer" to track dry, I'm a loose cannon who takes insane risks with his client's art and money. Just this week our studio manager called me into his office to demand my gun and shield. This was because my fly-by-night attitude had seen my partner land in the ICU after a bad bust during a guitar overdub session. I slammed my firearm and badge down on his desk and told him "you can take me off the force, but you can't take me off the case!"

now, thats funny!

[casey campbell]

BTW, I never suggested or said anywhere that it IS necessary to track with compression. If you can find one instance of me making that statement, I'll gladly continue this discussion with you. If not, I'll assume that you're incapable of continuing. But, what I won't do is continue to argue vs. a moving target with a tendency to just make shit up to argue against.

I made good points about why it's NEVER a good idea to use a compressor EVER when tracking to a daw. Compression is the antichrist, and will the be downfall of all civilization. When the world is on it's knees, begging for a glimmer of hope, there compression will be eating the moribund bodies of unsuspecting 30 something uneducated yuppies who couldn't hold down a real job because they are too busy arguing about squeezing the bejezuz out of audio (and then converting it to mp3).



later tater...

[MoreSpaceEcho]

casey you are kind of being a dick on this thread.

instead of insisting that your opinion is the only valid one, why don't you try reading some of the posts other people made and consider that there might possibly be some wisdom to them. here's what i wrote before, why don't you try reading it this time and then tell me what's wrong with it.

compressing vocals a bit on the way in is a good idea because
1. it almost invariably helps the vocal sit in the track better. which is nice because then you can listen to a playback and focus on the performance rather than riding the fader all over the place. and more importantly,
2. most singers LIKE THE WAY THEIR VOCALS SOUND with some compression. the sound of lots of rock vocals that everyone knows and loves is DEPENDENT on tons of compression. go ask robert plant how he feels about the 1176.

likewise there's plenty of other times compression on the way in is a good idea...if someone's doing, i dunno, a toy xylophone overdub, and we listen to the basic sound and all we hear is the transient spiking 20db above the sustain (which is the part of the sound we really want) then yeah i am gonna squash the shit outta that transient and make it sound more like we want it to sound from the get go. why should i wait until later when i can hear it's wrong now?

what if i'm recording something like pedal steel, where the dynamics can be all over the place? if on the first run through of the tune i can hear that the dynamics are nuts, it's a bad idea to do something about it then and there?

or say we've already got a really dense mix happening and then the guitar hero has one more brilliant idea for some cleanish single note melody thing. i know from experience that thing, on its own, is gonna just die in the mix so why wouldn't i compress it some to help it sit? if i said i eq'd it (via the guitar, the amp, the mic, an actual eq, or all of the above) to be really midrangey to help it cut through the 46,000 other guitar tracks, would you say that was a bad idea? probably not, so what's the difference in using a compressor to help achieve the same goal?

i'm not saying i track everything through a distressor on nuke, or even that i track most things with compression. i don't. but a blanket statement like "it's a bad idea and not necessary" is just plain silly.

[A.David.MacKinnon]

Wow. It's been a long time since I've seen a pissing match of such epic proportions. I'm amazed that this thread hasn't been locked yet.

[suppositron]

Holy shit. I might have to actually read this thread now.