Which oscilloscpe for audio-related DIY?
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- gettin' sounds
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Which oscilloscpe for audio-related DIY?
Hi all,
I'm thinking about picking up a cheap o'scope for audio troubleshooting, mostly for DIY solid state stuff (e.g racking and servicing old pre modules) and possibly my valve amps as well. I see some for under ?50 here in the UK - are these any good? Should I be looking for A/D and some software instead?
Any features/brands to look for or avoid?
Thanks as always for your thoughts....you TOMBers are the best!
Cheers,
Paul
I'm thinking about picking up a cheap o'scope for audio troubleshooting, mostly for DIY solid state stuff (e.g racking and servicing old pre modules) and possibly my valve amps as well. I see some for under ?50 here in the UK - are these any good? Should I be looking for A/D and some software instead?
Any features/brands to look for or avoid?
Thanks as always for your thoughts....you TOMBers are the best!
Cheers,
Paul
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- re-cappin' neve
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Anything that goes up to 20-30 MHz should suffice.
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Personally, for any kind of troubleshooting, I would want to have a dual channel scope, which allows you to look at two signals simultaneously and do various comparisons between the signals. Some of the inexpensive models are only single channel.
I would think that even 1MHz bandwidth would be sufficient for audio work.
I would think that even 1MHz bandwidth would be sufficient for audio work.
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- moves faders with mind
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Specifically, which ones? I've seen some decent cheap stuff, and some absolute trash.I see some for under ?50 here in the UK - are these any good?
We've got a little Owon around the office that can get the job done...but I hoard the Tek TDS2024. We have a little Velleman LCD scope that's handy for field troubleshooting because it's so mobile.
If you looking used, the previous posters both mention valid criteria: 2 channels, and bandwidth in the 20 to 100 MHz range. Tek 465 (with scope-mobile, natch!), anyone?
If you mean using a soundcard and fashioning a probe, it'll work in a pinch, but I wouldn't confuse it with real test equipment. Audio converters have some intrinsic hangups that a real scope won't. Usually, the probe includes a big coupling cap, so it's AC coupled...and won't work for DC. The CD accuracy of audio converters isn't particularly great, either. If you get rid of the cap, you risk cooking the ADC stage with out-of-range DC Voltages. Finally, it's bandwidth limited to the audio range. If you're hunting for RFI bugaboos, you'll never see them.Should I be looking for A/D and some software instead?
Alternatively, there's a new category of product that's catching on: the USB-oscilloscope. It's a little box that you plug probes into, then plug into a computer, with software that acts like an onscreen scope.
The one I've had any experience with worked OK...the software reminded me a little too much of some plugins: they tried too hard to mimic the hardware, where some liberties in the UI would have made it more usable...onscreen concentric knobs, etc. The biggest hangup is that it was limited to 30V on the input...or 300V with an X10 probe...which still might not be enough for some tube amps.
Elektor has been running some USB-scope reviews recently.
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- re-cappin' neve
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just saw this post and it roused my interest as i'm looking for a scope myself. i just wanted to add that when i was at electrical audio with a friend's band a few months back, albini had the main outs hooked up to a scope as well. i only noticed him looking at it while tinkering with guitar tones/levels. aside from phase, would there be anything else a scope would tell you?
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If all you're interested in is looking at audio, 10 MHz will get you there.
If you're looking for something that's a more useful general purpose DIY tool, it's on the very bottom edge of useful, for several reasons:
-One of the most common things we see requests for here is advice on component upgrades - often opamp swapping. The usual caveat is "make sure they're stable," meaning make sure you're not building an RF oscillator with the swap. I've seen stuff scream in the 5 to 20 MHz range...sometimes right on the limit of what my poor ol' B&K scope can discern.It's easy to fix, but only if you can see it.
-If your interests move beyond the audio range, a higher bandwidth scope will be useful - say, building/troubleshooting radios or HAM gear. Or indeed getting into digital stuff. If you're really keen on DIY, there may be an Arduino or DSPic in your future.
-A 10 MHz scope is probably an antique, with it's own maintenance issues. If you're troubleshooting equipment isn't working, how do you troubleshoot it?
If you're looking for something that's a more useful general purpose DIY tool, it's on the very bottom edge of useful, for several reasons:
-One of the most common things we see requests for here is advice on component upgrades - often opamp swapping. The usual caveat is "make sure they're stable," meaning make sure you're not building an RF oscillator with the swap. I've seen stuff scream in the 5 to 20 MHz range...sometimes right on the limit of what my poor ol' B&K scope can discern.It's easy to fix, but only if you can see it.
-If your interests move beyond the audio range, a higher bandwidth scope will be useful - say, building/troubleshooting radios or HAM gear. Or indeed getting into digital stuff. If you're really keen on DIY, there may be an Arduino or DSPic in your future.
-A 10 MHz scope is probably an antique, with it's own maintenance issues. If you're troubleshooting equipment isn't working, how do you troubleshoot it?
- audioboffin
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There are plenty of 20 to 40 mHz dual channel CROs out there, and usually not too hard to find on the used market.
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You can set azimuth on a tape machine without a scope, but it's tricky. Once the machine is aligned, it's probably most helpful in visualizing phase effects (as you note).permanent hearing damage wrote:just saw this post and it roused my interest as i'm looking for a scope myself. i just wanted to add that when i was at electrical audio with a friend's band a few months back, albini had the main outs hooked up to a scope as well. i only noticed him looking at it while tinkering with guitar tones/levels. aside from phase, would there be anything else a scope would tell you?
= Justin
- audioboffin
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Once you work with a scope for a while there's lots of stuff it's handy for, and similarly to a spectrum analyser, once you get used to how things "look" when they sound right, can be a valuable diagnostic tool.
Awesome for getting things in phase (multiple mics etc) not just in terms of using a phase switch, but in positioning mics etc as well.
Awesome for getting things in phase (multiple mics etc) not just in terms of using a phase switch, but in positioning mics etc as well.
The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side.
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