I am in over my head. Recording Sam Rivers big band

[Foot Foot]

Hello,

My friend and I have what you might call a studio. It has a fair size tracking room and a control room. It's just for rehearsing his bands and my little projects I do for fun.
Here's the thing, my friend Chris plays saxophone in Sam Rivers' Big band and they have started rehearsing every wednesday night at our place. I've known Sam for a while and he asked me to put up a mic to record their rehearsals (Sam likes to listen back afterward). So I put up my Charter Oak in Omni and recorded one track for Sam.
He liked it and asked me to do more the following week. "Why not put up more mics next time" he asks. So last night I put up 7 mics and a Di for bass. I've never done anything like trying to manage 17 horns, drums and bass in a 28x20 room before. The results were fair. I want them to be better.
Plus, all this goes to a mackie onyx to a modded motu 828. I've never fancied myself an accomplished engineer. Just a musician who dabbles in recording.
To me Sam is such an important artist and a great guy that, since he wants me here, I want to attempt to do justice to his work. At 87 he is still vibrant but he's 87. I am lucky to be here archiving.
I am looking for any advice to help. Tips or tricks or something to look for that might seem obvious that my newbie brain hasn't contemplated.
Or, if anyone is in Orlando, FL on wednesday nights and might want to swing by and offer advice/help. The band is amazing and Sam's music even on 1 mic is a great listen.
Sorry for long post.

[Scott Greenberg]

When in doubt, I would just keep it super simple. If you have any kind of stereo pair you could set up as mains, that would be essential. Then if you feel like you need more, you could spot mic particular sections but I would probably rely on the main pair as much as possible.

[Foot Foot]

W If you have any kind of stereo pair you could set up as mains, that would be essential.

Hi Scott,

thanks for the tip. Question, the band sits in a 3 wall horseshoe Trombones on east wall, saxes on south wall and trumpets on west wall. Where would you put the stereo pair?
The problem I have is that I am trying to set the mics up before the band sits down.
I don't touch anything after they start. Levels on the fly no sound check.

[Professor T]

The band is amazing and Sam's music even on 1 mic is a great listen.

There you go. Don't doubt what you know. Throw up more mics if it makes Sam feel better, but in the end, to quote Julia Child: "You are alone in the kitchen and nobody can see you."

[Scott Greenberg]

Where would you put the stereo pair?

Basically the mics are acting as your ears, so put them wherever you would stand/sit in the room to listen to the band.

If it sounds good in the room then it will sound good in your recording (maybe). haha

[Foot Foot]

The band is amazing and Sam's music even on 1 mic is a great listen.

There you go. Don't doubt what you know. Throw up more mics if it makes Sam feel better, but in the end, to quote Julia Child: "You are alone in the kitchen and nobody can see you."

That was pretty much my attitude going into this. But I have to admit the trumpets owning the room mic makes me think I can do better. Albeit I one hour once a week increments.

[Gregg Juke]

I would try miking with the stereo pair as an overhead room mic as high as you can realistically get it/them.

Then mike each section, bearing in mind that the trumpets will continue to try and own the room. If you have any way to baffle-off section microphones from the others (or just used cardioid patterns wisely), that would help. You'll be relying on the stereo pair, but filling in sections as they need it. Is there a piano? Is that acoustic or electric DI'd as well? You probably only need a mic or two on drums.

Consider listening to the room for a tune or two as the band plays, and figuring out if you need to move anybody around.

Consider listening to a bunch of big band recordings before your next couple of sessions.

Here's a thread that might help:

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/remote-p ... lease.html

Here's an article that might help:

http://www.dpamicrophones.com/en/Microp ... Drums.aspx

Here's another:

http://www.stereophile.com/musicrecordi ... ndex4.html

Unfortunately, none of those is the one I was looking for that had some classic studio big band studio miking scheme diagrams, but keep looking, it's out there.

GJ

[Foot Foot]

Thanks everyone for the suggestions and links. I have been poking around online looking up random bits of information. I know all I can really do is listen, evaluate and respond. I know this is going to be a big learning experience. This band just produces the densest stacked chords I have ever heard.

[Foot Foot]

Here's a quick dump of last week. The band is sight reading the charts so there are some stops and starts and a couple of minor volume jumps.
Anyway, FWIW:
http://soundcloud.com/ralph-ameduri

[losthighway]

This sounds really cool man. I was expecting a Benny Goodman type of deal, but this is way more "out". I am reminded of Duke Ellington's awesome Far East Suite. I've never really worked on a project like this, so I don't really have a lot of advice. You've got that great drum sound that feels organic, kind of dry but still sounds like it's happening in a room. The saxes sound like a 'section'. Can still hear the bass walking around down there too, a little distant, but probably perfect for the ensemble.

I have been playing with a 10 piece Afro-beat band that's talking about recording at my place and I'm also a little intimidated. And that's only four horns, I'm thinking about close mic'ing each, but then again....[/i]

[blungo2]

Wow! That's amazing! Thanks for posting that and making it available for download.

[Scodiddly]

I think that in general you're going to want to have the option to bring up the quieter instruments in the mix. Piano in particular, because in big band it tends to be a bit of a counterpoint or answering voice. Usually important piano bits are done when the horns quiet down, but it's good to have the option of bringing it up even more. After that, bass (which you already have) and saxes. I'd listen to the mix with a critical ear and the question of "can I hear every section?".

[Scodiddly]

Wow, that's interesting stuff!

I'm not hearing a keyboard at all, so maybe that's a moot point. The bass sounds a bit distant, so I'd work on getting a more immediate sound. Overall the balance between sections is very good, the trumpets aren't overwhelming at all.

Is that a tuba I'm hearing in the trombone section? I'd try to bring that a bit more forward as well.

From the recording I think I'd go for the following:
Bass DI/mic, something up close
A mic for each horn section
Kick drum mic (jazz kick isn't anything like rock kick, but it does have its place)
Try to get that tuba or bass bone a hair more up front

[Scodiddly]

By the way, I've found that the best sound from an upright bass is a mic close to the bass-side (player's right) f-hole, but pointed up across the body instead of into the f-hole.

[Foot Foot]

This sounds really cool man. I was expecting a Benny Goodman type of deal, but this is way more "out". I am reminded of Duke Ellington's awesome Far East Suite. I've never really worked on a project like this, so I don't really have a lot of advice. You've got that great drum sound that feels organic, kind of dry but still sounds like it's happening in a room. The saxes sound like a 'section'. Can still hear the bass walking around down there too, a little distant, but probably perfect for the ensemble.

I have been playing with a 10 piece Afro-beat band that's talking about recording at my place and I'm also a little intimidated. And that's only four horns, I'm thinking about close mic'ing each, but then again....[/i]

Thanks for listening. Sam's music is something special. I don't think horn sections benefit from being close micked. I just have to find the sweet spots between sections. The bass feed on this day sounded like a vuvuzela, nothing but buzzzzzzzzzzzzz. So it's lacking and it was my error.
I always wanted to play with micking horns. I got horns.