Anyone using two figure 8 mics for singer/songwriters?
-
- pushin' record
- Posts: 231
- Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:22 am
- Location: St. Charles, IL
I tried a similar technique once a few years ago, and it worked pretty well.
Instead of using one mic on guitar and one on voice, I did a blumlein pair of c414's on the guitar, sort of up higher and pointed down a bit, so the null of the pair was facing the singers head. Then I used a u87, bi-directional, on the voice, aiming the null at the guitar.
I don't recall whether or not I really achieved that much separation, I think I rushed the set up a bit. The end result, however, turned out pretty good and the musician was happy (which is what really counts, right?)
Instead of using one mic on guitar and one on voice, I did a blumlein pair of c414's on the guitar, sort of up higher and pointed down a bit, so the null of the pair was facing the singers head. Then I used a u87, bi-directional, on the voice, aiming the null at the guitar.
I don't recall whether or not I really achieved that much separation, I think I rushed the set up a bit. The end result, however, turned out pretty good and the musician was happy (which is what really counts, right?)
- jmiller
- steve albini likes it
- Posts: 396
- Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2003 12:53 am
- Location: North Hollywood, on Radford near the In-N-Out
Has anyone ever found that they have to be really diligent about maintaining mic placement, constantly, when doing this?
Specifically with the guitar, I find that the performers very often make subtle movements which can dramatically change the sound, requiring constant readjustment of the guitar mic.
I am not talking about constant rocking back and forth, but rather really simple shifts in how they are sitting. they may stop to tune, and when starting to perform again their sitting position or angle is just slightly altered enough that I have to run out and adjust the mic because it is now too thin or too boomy, picking up more vocal than before, etc.
I'm not micing too close or anything- probably about 18" to 2 feet on the guitar mic, depending on how soft the player is (and it seems I am always dealing with very soft players which make it that much harder).
It still works great but I'm finding that I have to really keep up on it a lot.
Specifically with the guitar, I find that the performers very often make subtle movements which can dramatically change the sound, requiring constant readjustment of the guitar mic.
I am not talking about constant rocking back and forth, but rather really simple shifts in how they are sitting. they may stop to tune, and when starting to perform again their sitting position or angle is just slightly altered enough that I have to run out and adjust the mic because it is now too thin or too boomy, picking up more vocal than before, etc.
I'm not micing too close or anything- probably about 18" to 2 feet on the guitar mic, depending on how soft the player is (and it seems I am always dealing with very soft players which make it that much harder).
It still works great but I'm finding that I have to really keep up on it a lot.
LOVELY Acoustic Guitar Sound!
I was really impressed with the guitar sound! Pretty much as Wes described. I was hoping to hear the separation of the two tracks, though. Any chance?Front End Audio wrote:Check this out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfH-8oMMT9U its a video we shoot when Wes Dooley came and demonstrated his mics for us! I would be interested to see if it works as well for LDC's! I am going to use this technique later today to track some guitar and vocals so I will try out some LDC's!
Cheers,
Nicholas
- jgimbel
- carpal tunnel
- Posts: 1688
- Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:51 pm
- Location: Philadelphia, PA
- Contact:
Re: LOVELY Acoustic Guitar Sound!
+1, I thought they'd play the individual tracks. I'm definitely of the "soloing things isn't too great as you need to hear sounds in context" but I just thought it would be really interesting to hear what the bleed is sounding like.tekis wrote:I was really impressed with the guitar sound! Pretty much as Wes described. I was hoping to hear the separation of the two tracks, though. Any chance?Front End Audio wrote:Check this out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfH-8oMMT9U its a video we shoot when Wes Dooley came and demonstrated his mics for us! I would be interested to see if it works as well for LDC's! I am going to use this technique later today to track some guitar and vocals so I will try out some LDC's!
Cheers,
Nicholas
- Recycled_Brains
- resurrected
- Posts: 2354
- Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 6:58 pm
- Location: Albany, NY
- Contact:
Re: LOVELY Acoustic Guitar Sound!
https://www.frontendaudio.com/Articles.asp?ID=213.tekis wrote:I was really impressed with the guitar sound! Pretty much as Wes described. I was hoping to hear the separation of the two tracks, though. Any chance?Front End Audio wrote:Check this out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfH-8oMMT9U its a video we shoot when Wes Dooley came and demonstrated his mics for us! I would be interested to see if it works as well for LDC's! I am going to use this technique later today to track some guitar and vocals so I will try out some LDC's!
Cheers,
Nicholas
- losthighway
- resurrected
- Posts: 2351
- Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2008 8:02 pm
- Contact:
Absolutely. Especially if lady/dude is coming in to the control room to hear playback before going out to take a seat with the guitar again. I try to be diligent about peeking in to see if they've oriented themselves properly. Unfortunately this is one of those "can't control everything" situations in recording where we can't always be as scientific as we would like. It is very striking because sometimes a shift of a few inches (especially if the person is turning their body and the guitar with it) can result in a HUGE tonal shift.jmiller wrote:Has anyone ever found that they have to be really diligent about maintaining mic placement, constantly, when doing this?
Specifically with the guitar, I find that the performers very often make subtle movements which can dramatically change the sound, requiring constant readjustment of the guitar mic.
I am not talking about constant rocking back and forth, but rather really simple shifts in how they are sitting. they may stop to tune, and when starting to perform again their sitting position or angle is just slightly altered enough that I have to run out and adjust the mic because it is now too thin or too boomy, picking up more vocal than before, etc.
I'm not micing too close or anything- probably about 18" to 2 feet on the guitar mic, depending on how soft the player is (and it seems I am always dealing with very soft players which make it that much harder).
It still works great but I'm finding that I have to really keep up on it a lot.
- Sean Sullivan
- moves faders with mind
- Posts: 2555
- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 2:24 pm
- Location: Nashville
- Contact:
I've come to love this technique, I used today with John Prine with a U87 and a 414. The vocals are hardly audible in the guitar mic, and there's just a touch of guitar in the vocals. But, it sounds very far away. John plays and sings very softly, so there was a lot of proximity boost I had to cut out, but I think with a louder singer and more distance it would be even better.
I'm tracking a 4 piece bluegrass band live next week and they have 3 singers and I'll probably record everything in this manner.
I'm tracking a 4 piece bluegrass band live next week and they have 3 singers and I'll probably record everything in this manner.
Still waiting for a Luna reunion
-
- zen recordist
- Posts: 10890
- Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2003 1:26 am
- Location: Charlotte, NC
- Contact:
That's very cool. John Prine is great!Sean Sullivan wrote:I've come to love this technique, I used today with John Prine with a U87 and a 414.
I've done it with 414s and with 4050s, but I haven't done it with U87s. Not sure why. At times, I like the U87 on both acoustic guitar and vocals, so it's worth doing even if there's only one around. I need to try this.
Which mic did you use on which source?
Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC
- losthighway
- resurrected
- Posts: 2351
- Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2008 8:02 pm
- Contact:
- Sean Sullivan
- moves faders with mind
- Posts: 2555
- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 2:24 pm
- Location: Nashville
- Contact:
I used the U87 on guitar and 414 (Audio Upgrades modified) on his voice. Maybe next time I'll try it the other way around.cgarges wrote:Which mic did you use on which source?Sean Sullivan wrote:I've come to love this technique, I used today with John Prine with a U87 and a 414.
Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC
Still waiting for a Luna reunion
-
- zen recordist
- Posts: 7485
- Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2004 10:30 pm
- Location: Bloomington IL
- Contact:
I'm mixing some stuff I tracked like this last month. It's pretty interesting. I used my TOMB ribbons, as I was trying for a bit of an old school sound. I also had an omni room mic up.
I can really adjust the guitar or vocal with faders and/or EQ without screwing up the other source.
I often will do an XY guitar and figure 8 vocal mic, and I like that a lot too.
I can really adjust the guitar or vocal with faders and/or EQ without screwing up the other source.
I often will do an XY guitar and figure 8 vocal mic, and I like that a lot too.
- Fletcher
- steve albini likes it
- Posts: 395
- Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2003 7:38 am
- Location: M?nchen
- Contact:
Re: LOVELY Acoustic Guitar Sound!
Due respect - on page 1 of this thread I posted http://www.methodsandapplicationslabora ... /?id=fig-8 where you can indeed download the individual tracks from the session [it was a session from my old studio].tekis wrote:I was really impressed with the guitar sound! Pretty much as Wes described. I was hoping to hear the separation of the two tracks, though. Any chance?
It works with large diaphragm condenser mics, ribbon mics, anything that goes into "figure 8".
On the "musicians moving" question - it helps if you can get the performer to sit and still be able to perform. I've had mondo problems with people that need to stand to get a performance as when they're standing, they're moving.
At those times I'm unfortunately sentenced to trying to take their acoustic guitar "direct" [I had a couple of killer acoustic guitars with "pickup outputs" at my old studio] and then running it through umpteen thousands of dollars worth of hardware to make it sound like it was recorded with a mic... but the performance is more important than the audio, so whatever makes the performer comfortable is what needs to be done.
If they're a REAL "Bluegrass Band" then usually one mic with the band in a semi-circle is all you need... if you need "stereo" then a Blumlein pair usually does the trick [then again, you were doing John Prine recently and I was trying to figure out how to order dinner].Sean Sullivan wrote:I'm tracking a 4 piece bluegrass band live next week and they have 3 singers and I'll probably record everything in this manner.
Peace.
- Sean Sullivan
- moves faders with mind
- Posts: 2555
- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 2:24 pm
- Location: Nashville
- Contact:
Re: LOVELY Acoustic Guitar Sound!
Bluegrass is funny, not too many people I've come across do the one mic technique anymore, except live. Everyone still does everything live, but it really just depends on if they want isolation for punches/overdubs or not.Fletcher wrote:If they're a REAL "Bluegrass Band" then usually one mic with the band in a semi-circle is all you need... if you need "stereo" then a Blumlein pair usually does the trick [then again, you were doing John Prine recently and I was trying to figure out how to order dinner].Sean Sullivan wrote:I'm tracking a 4 piece bluegrass band live next week and they have 3 singers and I'll probably record everything in this manner.
Peace.
Still waiting for a Luna reunion
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 142 guests