nice synth!

[JES]

I came looking to read something on synths, but then, awesome! A religion debate on a music board! I just wanted to refute this bit of foolishness:

the alternative belief set, is that you live, you die, and in a few years from now - none of it matters. your life has no meaning... worm food.

atheism is convenient, until you are in the winter of your life...

As someone who went through some wintery shit last year with cancer, I call bullshit. Atheism works just fine at times of crisis. I think it's a fantasy of the religious that people come to religious belief in times of stress, when the opposite is just as often true (see "faith tested"). Also, I call bullshit on the "your life has no meaning if there's nothing after death blablabla worm food" which strikes me as plain old fear of your own mortality.

I've got no problem with people being religious, but let's not make things up about nonbelievers, please.

PS -- To not believe in an emotionally-needy diety does not mean you believe in nothing. I believe in other people.

PPS -- I love sound synthesis.

[Gregg Juke]

>>>>but then, awesome! A religion debate on a music board!<<<<

Yes, pretty wary (and sick and tired) of that sort of thing myself, but to be fair to Casey, he posted something about a band's cool synth, and somebody got offended and everything went south from there (at least that's the way it looks from following the thread-- maybe it's time for a moderator-lock?).

>>>> Also, I call bullshit on the "your life has no meaning if there's nothing after death blablabla worm food" which strikes me as plain old fear of your own mortality.

I've got no problem with people being religious, but let's not make things up about nonbelievers, please.<<<<

Casey was probably just basing that comment on the prevailing philosophy of the last half of the 20th Century, and a fairly concise summary of Post-Modernism... I'm sure he didn't mean to sweepingly-generalize regarding every single materialist since Voltaire; that would be silly.

GJ

[JES]

Awesome. Religion AND postmodernism on a music board!

That is not a summary of postmodernism. For one thing, there is no coherent thing called postmodern philosophy (despite a few dusty books from the 1980s that argue otherwise). If you want to argue the relative merits of different philosophers like Deleuze vs. Derrida vs. Irigaray, by all means, but none make any "worm food" arguments that I'm aware of. And I've actually read them carefully.

But I'll join you in Casey's defence on the music front. I do think it's unfair for people to harsh on other people's music genres on a recording board. Indy music is full of sub sub genres. You like what you like. Hipsterdom on music boards is tiring.

As to performing live with a giant modular setup, it strikes me as having quickly diminishing returns (especially in that venue). But hey, if you've got the roadies. . . .

And with that, I'll stop.

[casey campbell]

Well, in my own defense, I truly was digging the synth in the video and thought it was cool. Then out of nowhere, folks start flaming cause it happened to be a christian band.
The attitude was...hey christianity sucks and we're gonna derail your thread, but don't be offended now...

My thought was that the christianity of the west in the last several years, is not the christianity of the bible, and if people just knew the real person of jesus, perhaps they wouldn't be slamming Him. In my mind, its hard to have an issue with a belief that there is a loving heavenly Father who wants us to be close to Him. So much so, that He died for us.

You took the conversation out of context (the worm food comment)....I didn't make that comment until way later, enduring negative comment after negative comment. My thought was...ok, you wanna talk about this, then let's talk about it.

I truly am sorry you went through sickness and pain. I in no way meant to offend anyones lack of belief, I just wish others would afford me the same courtesy...I didn't mean it in a crappy way, but was just commenting that its not such a bad thing to believe, and especially when you come to the end of life. Like the old quote: "if I'm wrong, then what does it matter, as I've lost nothing...but if you are wrong, you've lost it all."

Again, much love...and I hope we all find the true peace in ife that only Jesus can give...

P.s. gregg, you are right.

[JES]

Like the old quote: "if I'm wrong, then what does it matter, as I've lost nothing...but if you are wrong, you've lost it all."

Again, much love...and I hope we all find the true peace in ife that only Jesus can give...

P.s. gregg, you are right.

First, I agree that people are dicks for insulting the music you posted and for attacking you for being Christian.

But your response to me indicates a somewhat condescending attitude toward nonbelievers. For instance, in the quotes above, there's the "only Jesus" sentiment and the fake binary that our two positions are the only two possible. What if we're both wrong and some particularly strict version of Hinduism is right and we both wind up reincarnated as factory farmed chickens because of some minor inadvertent failure to follow that doctrine? This is why I find the "fear of death" argument so unconvincing. There's no way to "hedge one's bets" against the cornucopia of the world's fundamentalisms. You believe or you don't.

Okay, I already did that annoying internet thing where someone promises to leave a thread and then comes back. I've now unsubbed and promise again not to return. You may have the last word if you so choose.

[casey campbell]

i understand your view. i wasn't talking down to you in any way. i was referencing a previously discussed post.

as far as how do i know what position is right...i guess that's where faith comes in.

ok everyone, lets please let this thread die.

thanks-

[Snarl 12/8]

ok everyone, lets please let this thread die.

How should we kill it? Nail it to a cross? It could come back as some weird perversion of itself.

[casey campbell]

ok everyone, lets please let this thread die.

How should we kill it? Nail it to a cross? It could come back as some weird perversion of itself.

wow, that was really tasteful.

[Brett Siler]

I liked it.

[Knights Who Say Neve]

i don't spend all of my time trying to disprove the tooth fairy.

The followers of the One True Tooth Fairy aren't trying to subvert science education and the Constitution while stoking the flames for a holy war against Islam.

If they were, I'm sure the atheists would be disproving them too.

[metanoiastudios]

Man, SO many people to thank for ruining this thread:

1) jntracks, aside from your obvious intolerance toward the religious (based off of your comment: "i wonder how they reconcile they're ancient superstition with the modern technology they're so into. (i don't really wonder)", you should take a moment to read the posting rules for this forum. A quick look at www.tapeop.com will reveal that it is a music recording magazine, and, should you be good at associating things you may even be able to determine that a TapeOp forum may ALSO relate to audio recording.

Since you are interested in counter-apologetics, feel free to contact I, or Casey, or anyone who would be willing to tastefully discuss these topics IN PRIVATE. I won't go to the extreme to post websites to counter your counter-apologetic website, as this isn't the place to do so (I think I've mentioned this before?)

PS: it's "their", not "they're". Sorry...pet peeve.


2) Casey, perhaps I could see how a statement such as "there is no such thing as atheism, only agnosticism" could be taken as an assertion, ESPECIALLY in an online forum where we are devoid from fully displaying our true emotions. In any event, I'm sure you meant this as an opinion.

3) Both atheism and Christianity look at hard scientifically, historical, and in the event of Christianity, biblical evidence. Based on such evidence, either party must assess what they believe the verdict to be. I happen to believe that there's a strong, rational case for the existence of God, faith and Christianity, but many people here may not share that belief. Have I lost all respect for these people? absolutely not. Do I proceed to attack their ego and squash their sense of worth because of it? nope, it's against what I believe in (I know, how terrible of me...)

In regards to agnosticism, even us Christians have pockets of agnosticism from time to time. It would be plain silly for me to deny that.

4) It strikes me as odd that even though this whole thing began with jntracks posing a direct attack at Christianity, Casey is seen as the instigator and offender. Not only that, but Snarl 12/8's comment "How should we kill it? Nail it to a cross? It could come back as some weird perversion of itself" appears to have gone unnoticed. In any event, Snarl, I respect you.

[Gregg Juke]

>>>>The followers of the One True Tooth Fairy aren't trying to subvert science education and the Constitution while stoking the flames for a holy war against Islam.

If they were, I'm sure the atheists would be disproving them too.<<<<

And of course, once again another over-blown, amazingly sweepingly generalized, non-nuanced unilateral non-example...

So, apparent choices: 1) Close the thread for real this time? 2) Have a real, honest, open debate devoid of attack BS? (Highly unlikely; the same one-sided smarmy spirit that perverted a worldwide faith's precious historical symbol [the "Jesus fish"] with oh so many profane perversions, while preaching "tolerance" of all, pervades these discussions whenever they occur) 3) Take all of the flamey vitriol to PM's or e-mail discussions? 4) Get back to discussing whether or not it was actually a "NICE SYNTH?" 5) Let it go...

In the absence of evidence for 1), 2), 3) or 4), I think I'll go with 5). Peace be unto you.

GJ

[chris harris]

Hahahahahaaaahahahaaaaa!!! The God Squad returns to defend poor Casey!! Funny how every shitty thing Casey says is an "opinion"... There won't be room for this thread or Jesus on that cross if Casey doesn't step down from it!

metanoiastudios, I know you're just doing god's work and standing up for another christer in need. Maybe by the third or fourth time, you'll realize that all of these "opinions" you excuse from your martyr are just as antagonistic as the comments from the heathens.

It's also funny to see Gregg and metanoiastudios jump through hoops to try and explain what Casey "meant", while writing off the things others have said as rude.

Btw, I've contacted Casey privately to clarify a rather heated discussion about MUSIC. Result? He used the occasion to proselytize. Those who can't resist spreading the word of christ, should be prepared to not be so butt hurt about hearing the rebuttal.

See you the next time Casey's "opinions" need defending.

[metanoiastudios]

Dude, it's just sad, seriously sad that you go out of your way to consistently pinpoint your attacks to one individual in an online forum. Frankly, it just seems that at this point you're simply doing it for the sheer pleasure of it (and it doesn't matter whether it's Casey or not, really). I'm sorry to hear that you've gone directly to the source and the answer(s) you've received weren't up to par. Now that you've announced Casey's failures to the rest of the world, I'm sure you will find others that will sympathize (sp? too early) with you.

metanoiastudios, I know you're just doing god's work and standing up for another christer in need. Maybe by the third or fourth time, you'll realize that all of these "opinions" you excuse from your martyr are just as antagonistic as the comments from the heathens.

Just standing up for a friend and for what I believe in. You'll have to let me know what is so wrong about that. I could ask what these "opinions" that you speak of are, but surely you are going to tell me anyway...

ps: I never called anybody a "heathen", you did. I do not refer to my own mother, an agnostic, as a "heathen", nor could/will I ever.

Those who can't resist spreading the word of christ, should be prepared to not be so butt hurt about hearing the rebuttal.

I agree wholeheartedly. Perhaps the answers he provided you with weren't sufficient, perhaps they were but you refute them regardless. In any event, I wasn't there to witness it, so it remains a private matter between you and him.

See you the next time Casey's "opinions" need defending.

I don't think so.

[chris harris]

Dude, it's just sad, seriously sad that you go out of your way to consistently pinpoint your attacks to one individual in an online forum. Frankly, it just seems that at this point you're simply doing it for the sheer pleasure of it (and it doesn't matter whether it's Casey or not, really).

Dude, it's just funny, seriously funny, that you think that my "attack" was "pinpointed" at Casey! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Yes, it's THAT funny!

You're right, though, that I get pleasure from pointing out when someone is full of shit. However, this time, it wasn't Casey. Are you starting to get it yet? I haven't had any comments on what Casey has or has not said in this thread. I just wanted to point out how funny it is that you keep going to bat for Casey. I guess you missed my edit where I mentioned the humor in watching you and Gregg make excuses for what Casey must have "meant" to say, while at the same time dogging the heathens for what they ACTUALLY say. Yeah, you christers are soooo reasonable, while these heathens are such meanies!