Editing and clean up on analog tape

[Matt C.]

So, i've been wanting to do more projects tracked to tape, mixed OTB, and just send the 2-track mix down to the computer as the finished product. But something has been bothering me - when working just with multi-track tape, what is the best way to edit out stuff like stick clicks, amp noise, etc at the beginnings and end of songs? this is assuming that i can't just physically cut out that chunk of tape. like if there is stuff on some tracks that needs to stay, but extra noise on other tracks that needs to be cut out.

do you just try to use the faders/mutes on the console to take that stuff out as you are mixing down? is there a way to actually go through and erase small bits like that, with enough precision to not accidentally erase the parts you need to keep?

[Mane1234]

For many multitrak machines there's a function that allows you to do it by hand. It's a little tedious and it takes some time but if you want that stuff gone then that's a way to take care of it. You can usually set up a way to punch in and punch out and that would take care of the clicks at the start but i'd be real careful about anything after that. You can always use mutes and get some other hands in your mixing sessions. That's totally keepin it old school.

I'd say consult your manual if you have one. What kind of machine are you working with?

[permanent hearing damage]

when i got a console with mute groups, my life got so much easier. i hope you have them

[Matt C.]

i'm working with a Tascam MS-16 tape machine and a Tascam M520 board. no mute groups on the board, the tape machine has a decent auto locator remote, but i'm not sure how well it works for setting up precision punch ins/outs. the manual didn't seem to have any information about doing this sort of thing. i guess i just have to test it out once it's all setup.

[Gregg Juke]

If you can't hand-erase, you'll need more hands for mix-down (we used to call that an "all hands on deck" mix). Write good notes and keep good track-sheets, and you'll be able to orchestrate the mix moves you need, although you could just dump the parts into the DAW and edit there...

One way to eliminate stick clicks is to not have them backed right up to the start of the tune in the first place. A practice I still use, even though it's largely irrelelvant in the digital age, is to have the drummer count off two measures ("One, Two; 1-2-3-4"), with the last two stick clicks silent. This gives you time to roll tape and mute/un-mute as necessary.

GJ

[drumsound]

If you can't hand-erase, you'll need more hands for mix-down (we used to call that an "all hands on deck" mix). Write good notes and keep good track-sheets, and you'll be able to orchestrate the mix moves you need, although you could just dump the parts into the DAW and edit there...

One way to eliminate stick clicks is to not have them backed right up to the start of the tune in the first place. A practice I still use, even though it's largely irrelelvant in the digital age, is to have the drummer count off two measures ("One, Two; 1-2-3-4"), with the last two stick clicks silent. This gives you time to roll tape and mute/un-mute as necessary.

GJ

I have drummers giver 1-2-3-4-1-2-_-_.

I'm all about muting things at the beginning and end, but i have fader and mute automation on my console, so it's easy to get right. Without automation you could mix in sections and splice things together, if you don't have people around to help with mutes and fader moves.

[Theo_Karon]

Yeah, mute in sections and then splice together on the master tape if it's a really really complex mix. If you're bouncing a lot you can take care of mutes for whatever's going into the bounce right then, saves headaches later.

Edit mode is your friend. Learn how to use it. The MS-16 is an awesome and responsive deck. You can also do very, very fast punches if you learn how to feel it out right. Be prepared for a slight delay at punch in and out, but it can be silent/unnoticeable if you do it right. Just punch in silence over amp hum/whatever. Another good trick for overdub takes at beginnings of songs is to run through a gate and then just throw it in bypass once the take kicks in.

M-520... I used one of those for a good coupla years. What a fucking beast. Great console to learn on, super full-featured, kind of teaches you what a large frame console is all about (even though it isn't quite one) but the sound... not really there. You have to fight for it. I remember mine had caps going out left and right, I'd have to blast signal through channels and wiggle channel in/eq in toggles around to get that channel strip to pass signal. Fun stuff. Mixing to two-track varispeeded up with the two track matching speed because the EQ just didn't sound right in the higher registers. Having two separate lr busses is pretty cool, but there were some fucking bizarre design decisions that went into that console.

Good luck!

[Matt C.]

actually now that i think about it, the board does kind of have mute groups (just turning the busses off in the monitor section that feeds to 2 track master output). so maybe this is more managable than i think.

i'm not sure what you guys mean when you say "mix in sections and plice things together".

yeah the m520 is kind of weird. mine is fortunately in pretty decent shape. i like it, but you're right that there were some weird design choices made there (no real L/R mix buss??). but that's a whole different thread....

[dsw]

just for the record, I like songs that start with stick clicks and amp noise. I can see where it could get old if every song was that way....but, just sayin. Also, if its only at the start and end of a song you can fix it REAL easy with the computer or at mastering.

[cgarges]

i'm not sure what you guys mean when you say "mix in sections and plice things together".

You can do a pass of the entire mix and then go back to the top and play it through again without recording it. When you get to a spot that's got one of those noises, hit the mute button and print that one spot of music to a new section of the 2-track tape. Then, you can use a razor blade, grease pencil, and splicing block and splice those sections with the noise removed into the original mix.

Or, you can do the same thing without running an entire pass of the mix and mix until one of those spots comes up, then stop, mute that spot, print that section of the song, unmute that track and kepp mixing, editing the two-track master tape together as you go.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[Matt C.]

cool, thanks for all the tips. one other question along those lines - are plain old razor blades i would buy at the hardware store fit for tape splicing? do those qualify as "non-magnetic", or are splicing razors a more specialized product?

[drumsound]

cool, thanks for all the tips. one other question along those lines - are plain old razor blades i would buy at the hardware store fit for tape splicing? do those qualify as "non-magnetic", or are splicing razors a more specialized product?

You can use hardware store blades. If you're really worried, demag them with your head demagger.

[JGriffin]

Is the OP actually mixing down to 2-track tape? The way the original post read, it seemed like he was printing to computer from multitrack, in which case he can still mix in sections but can do all of the 2-track editing on the computer, since that's where the mix winds up. In which case, of course, try not to scratch the monitor with the razor blade.

[xonlocust]

on the hand erase tip, and sorta piggybacking on the 'rookie mistakes you did' thread - when i was starting out and first got my 16tk, i was spot erasing out the clicks on the head of the song. marked the downbeat of the song w/the grease pencil - then cleaned them out.

played back and i cut off the downbeat.

motherfucker.

crucial lesson: know which head you are monitoring off of, and make your edit marks on that head. that's one of those 'you only make that mistake once' moments.

another trick i learned along the ways is rather than marking then going back, and erasing up to your mark - mark, then spot erase moving back from 'good' tape, away in reverse away from the downbeat. you hear the clicks go by in reverse while doing the spot erase, but then when played back they are gone. (since they travel over your playback head, THEN erase head in reverse).

these days a lot of time if it's just a rock song and everyone comes in on the downbeat i just leave it in and have it trimmed out in mastering. or more complicated mixes i'll punch in on the computer and assemble sections in there. or as mentioned - busses are like poor mans mute groups. on my 8bus console, i'll throw drums on 1-2, bass i'll usually leave on the LR, and gtrs on 3-4. that's a lot more manageable as a mix starts. you can usually have enough time to jump over to any muted vocal channels and open them up before singing starts.

also when doing vocals or whatever misc overdubs, i try to clean up the BS along the way - or at least as the mix is starting to come together. just arm the track and punch in over the spot with nothing plugged in - this will actually clean it more since you're not recording in the ambient noise of your microphone/headphone bleed/preamp/etc.

[Matt C.]

Is the OP actually mixing down to 2-track tape? The way the original post read, it seemed like he was printing to computer from multitrack, in which case he can still mix in sections but can do all of the 2-track editing on the computer, since that's where the mix winds up. In which case, of course, try not to scratch the monitor with the razor blade.

i often mix down to the computer, but sometimes i do 2 track tape.

are there any good "non-magnetic razor blade" VST plugins i can use in Nuendo?