that snap in a kick drum

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Fletcher
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Post by Fletcher » Thu Aug 05, 2010 12:54 am

I don't know what heads you're using or how you've tuned them... but a REMO "Ambassador" tuned rather loosely with a wood beater should give you "click" for days... from there, use the outside [non beater] head to get the "note" of the drum where you want it and you should be fine.

Peace.

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Post by mwerden » Thu Aug 05, 2010 3:19 am

I (used to?) try and get a ton of low end on a kick and I could never get the right amount of snap to poke through a mix. Usually there was some compression somewhere that was clamping down too hard on the low end. Try high passing the sidechain of a compressor and/or adding low end after compression. I think there's a lot of parallel compression going on nowadays as well, that could be part of the sound you're chasing. And mix bus compression for that matter.
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farview
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Post by farview » Thu Aug 05, 2010 7:29 am

permanent hearing damage wrote:
farview wrote:but if you think you are going to get a modern, clicky kick sound without a bunch of EQ, you are completely screwed.
i think this and what joel said is kinda what i needed to hear. i guess i have this feeling that if i'm boosting and cutting stuff like 10dB at times that i'm doing something wrong with mic placement and choice. granted, that could well be the case, but it's good to know that folks with a much more impressive discog than my own are doing the same damn thing.

thanks guys
It is not uncommon for me to add 15db of high shelf, suck out 10-15db of 900hz and add 6db of 50hz to a kick. All that goes into a compressor afterwards. After that, all the drums are routed to a buss and compressed together.

If you are going for a larger than life drum sound, you have to give up on the purist, make it real, attitudes. There is noting real sounding about modern, heavy metal drum sounds. Even when they are not using triggers, it still kind of sounds like they are.

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HeavyHand
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Post by HeavyHand » Thu Aug 05, 2010 9:37 am

the pads you put on the kick heads are Remo's "falam slam" which is kevlar and Danmar's "bass drum impact pad" which is a hard plastic and then the "metal kick" which is aluminum. i played all of them and i think the Danmar's are insanely clickey.
i usually use a falam slam. i just put a 421 up in the drum about 4 inches from the beater and then some other mic on the resonant side. when im looking for "that" sound. i cut all the low end out of the inside mic becuase im just using it for solid attack and then blend it with the outside mic. (or speaker as it tends to be)
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darnell
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Post by darnell » Fri Aug 06, 2010 12:10 pm

losthighway wrote: I can get a pretty modern attacky kick sound with a Sennheiser e 602, inside the kick drum, pointed at the beater, no pillow or blanket inside.
Def a great mic for a "pre triggered" sound. With an emad, you should be able to get all the attack and sub you need by just putting the mic barely inside the sound hole. Pointed at the beater. This mic also has a scoop somewhere around 300hz-600hz which is great if you are clearing out for distorted guitars. I find the d112 a little too "dodgeball" sounding, and really don't use it on kick too much since getting a 602.

I usually do a front of kick mic about 3 ft away that is also a mid side center for the whole kit. I have also tried a dynamic (senn e609, sm7) in combo with the 602 and had great results. Rounds out the scoop of the 602 and allows you to mix to taste.

d.

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darnell
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Post by darnell » Fri Aug 06, 2010 12:39 pm

Here's a sample of the 602/609 on a Gretsch Catalina. Lots of slammed room, but you'll get the gist.

http://deletedarrows.com/

Player is at the bottom of the page.
d.

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Post by joninc » Sun Aug 08, 2010 2:13 pm

i use a LDC out front for boom but a mic even a little ways inside can really help bring out the snap - for something requiring a rounder - less attacky sound, i usually use the atm 25.

for a more rock driving thing requiring more punch and snap - i love a 421. doesn't usually require a whole lot of top. maybe a little at 5k and a pinch of shelf at 10k.
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Post by kingtoad » Tue Aug 10, 2010 7:13 am

I'm surprised no-one has mentioned the Audix d6 yet. It's perfect for that "modern", scooped, snappy kick sound imo.

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Post by drumsound » Tue Aug 10, 2010 11:33 pm

permanent hearing damage wrote:
farview wrote:but if you think you are going to get a modern, clicky kick sound without a bunch of EQ, you are completely screwed.
i think this and what joel said is kinda what i needed to hear. i guess i have this feeling that if i'm boosting and cutting stuff like 10dB at times that i'm doing something wrong with mic placement and choice. granted, that could well be the case, but it's good to know that folks with a much more impressive discog than my own are doing the same damn thing.

thanks guys
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Post by fuzz » Tue Aug 17, 2010 6:43 pm

Chilli peppers californication type thing? I like that kick sound. not sure what they did tho.

e602 inside the hole for the beater and a sub-kick or some outside thing for the low bloom. 160X squeezin the inside mic. Eqin' the 602 for the 8k snappy part of the attack and leavin the outside alone usually. bussed together to tape

What Joel's saying is great. I actually high passed the e602 the other day at 150 and it just looked wrong, but let the outside mic do its thing. Whatever works

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Post by Nick Franklin » Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:01 pm

Sorry if someone's already mentioned this, I only scanned the thread quickly. Have you tried the Audix D6? It gets you in the ball park of that super-scooped clicky kick drum sound without EQ. I had a look at the frequency response plot and it's pretty smiley!

Not my cup of tea though.
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Post by albystarvation » Mon Aug 23, 2010 1:30 am

Well, I am really a noob, but to me it seems that I didn't even started to got close to a decent kick sound until i treated the two components of kick sound ( click and oomph) like altogether separate sounds.

the best recipe so far ( YMMV of course) is: Heil PR40 inside kick, 2"-3" from batter drumhead, slightly off center, pointed at beater impact point.

THEN, mult to two tracks: one ( 'the click'), EQ boost for 'point' ( roam for exact frequency, usually 2-4K - depends on specific drum and song). EQ cut, everything under... say 1K - nuke the lows! Then, with compressor ( i use UAD Transient Designer), shorten as much as you like the sound ( again, it depends on song and actual drum used).

Second track: ( the oomph): EQ cut from 300-500. Cut dramatically everything above 1K. Then, slow as much as you can the attack, keep only the sustain ( again, i use UAD Td here).

This gives me a sound that's really punchy, but also has some body without being obtrusive for other low frequency sounds. By playing with the two faders, you can decide balance between click and body. By Playing with EQs, you can make the sounds sit beside bass gtr and rhytm gtrs without muddying things up. By playing with compressors time constants, you can make the oomph breathe with the song.

I find that isolating things like this usually lends to the best results. Or maybe i like complicated things, since i know nothing about mic placement and how to tune and Eq a damned kick drum!! :D :D

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Post by casey campbell » Mon Aug 23, 2010 9:13 am

albystarvation wrote:Well, I am really a noob, but to me it seems that I didn't even started to got close to a decent kick sound until i treated the two components of kick sound ( click and oomph) like altogether separate sounds.

the best recipe so far ( YMMV of course) is: Heil PR40.....
i used a pr40 for a few years, and it's a great kick mic if you need the "snap!"

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Post by dfuruta » Mon Aug 23, 2010 10:55 am

I've had good results miking the beater with an sdc by the drummer's foot and blending with a mic on the resonant head. The beater mic gives the click, and the other mic gives the body of the sound.

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eeldip
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Post by eeldip » Mon Aug 23, 2010 4:55 pm

drum replacer

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