Announcing HYSTERICAL AUDIO

[mscottweber]

I think we need to expand our definitions of "rhythm, melody and harmony". Would you say that the serial atonality or Schoenburg and Berg was music? How about the Musique concrete of Pierre Schaffer and co? Does "pitch" necessarily have to fall within the diatonic scale? In fact, a lot of the harmonies and chord progressions that we find pretty common today were, at one point, not considered musical at all.

Maybe THIS is the brilliance of Joel's plugin. It starts discussions like this that add perspective to all of our musical thinking...

[Jeff White]

Can we lock this thread already?

What started out as a pre-celebration of a piece of gear from one of the most respected dudes here on this amazing resource of a message board has somehow managed to disintegrate into the most ridiculous back and forth pissing contest. Everyone needs to let it go. This isn't Gearslutz.

Jeff

[chris harris]

Equally interested about this plugin! Also, if you can't accept someone's opinion regarding a music genre, please shut up, turn the computer off, go outside and get some sun.

No one cares how elaborate your defense is regarding why rap is music to YOU. Rap is not music to some people, just like ICP is not music to me and techno is not "real music" to others. These are opinions, people. Time to change your diapers now...

This discussion about whether or not rap is "music" didn't start with an elaborate defense of the position that rap IS music. It started with an elaborate defense of the notion that rap IS NOT music. And, the (horribly flawed) elaborate defense started with a reference to a dictionary entry. It hardly seems like he was trying to present an opinion. He was CLEARLY AND OBVIOUSLY trying to make a case, supported by references (however misinterpreted), that it is a fact that rap is not music.

Again, I don't have any problem if it's his opinion that rap sucks or new country sucks or whatthefuckever. But, he most certainly did not present this as an opinion. He tried to make a case that rap is technically NOT MUSIC. He failed.

[chris harris]

Can we lock this thread already?

What started out as a pre-celebration of a piece of gear from one of the most respected dudes here on this amazing resource of a message board has somehow managed to disintegrate into the most ridiculous back and forth pissing contest. Everyone needs to let it go. This isn't Gearslutz.

Jeff

Honestly, it's not even a pissing contest. It's an epic crash and burn by a forum member who's getting in the habit of saying things that he "doesn't mean". These things typically aren't pretty. Especially when the one doing the crashing and burning is so hard headed as to stick to their guns and continue to flaunt their ignorance.

On a messageboard dedicated to music, a blunt statement like "rap is not music", supported by a stubborn misunderstanding of the english language, is obviously offensive to people who MAKE RAP MUSIC. Our society has mechanisms for discouraging offensive statements. One of them is challenging the person making the statement to defend the position. Often, an inability to articulate a defense of a controversial statement, leads to a thoughtful reexamination of an unsupportable position. Sometimes not.

I agree that it's silly that these things drag on and on. Maybe when someone exhibits a severe detachment from reality and a head-in-sand attitude towards the facts, maybe then it's appropriate to just write them off and let it go. But, I definitely don't think that "let it go" should be the first choice when you hear people spouting off things that are obviously offensive and factually inaccurate.

And, sometimes, even when the person spouting bullshit is clearly too stubborn to recognize the absence of logic in their position, it's still worth having the conversation for the benefit of others reading.

All of that said, I should have known that Casey would never accept the flaws in his argument. I should have left it at an acknowledgement that what he said was offensive and moved on. I'm not concerned at all with what Casey's opinions are. And, I'm pretty sure that the FACT that rap is music (according to the definition that Casey himself provided) has been established in this thread.

[casey campbell]

Can we lock this thread already?

What started out as a pre-celebration of a piece of gear from one of the most respected dudes here on this amazing resource of a message board has somehow managed to disintegrate into the most ridiculous back and forth pissing contest. Everyone needs to let it go. This isn't Gearslutz.

Jeff

Honestly, it's not even a pissing contest. It's an epic crash and burn by a forum member who's getting in the habit of saying things that he "doesn't mean". These things typically aren't pretty. Especially when the one doing the crashing and burning is so hard headed as to stick to their guns and continue to flaunt their ignorance.

On a messageboard dedicated to music, a blunt statement like "rap is not music", supported by a stubborn misunderstanding of the english language, is obviously offensive to people who MAKE RAP MUSIC. Our society has mechanisms for discouraging offensive statements. One of them is challenging the person making the statement to defend the position. Often, an inability to articulate a defense of a controversial statement, leads to a thoughtful reexamination of an unsupportable position. Sometimes not.

I agree that it's silly that these things drag on and on. Maybe when someone exhibits a severe detachment from reality and a head-in-sand attitude towards the facts, maybe then it's appropriate to just write them off and let it go. But, I definitely don't think that "let it go" should be the first choice when you hear people spouting off things that are obviously offensive and factually inaccurate.

And, sometimes, even when the person spouting bullshit is clearly too stubborn to recognize the absence of logic in their position, it's still worth having the conversation for the benefit of others reading.

All of that said, I should have known that Casey would never accept the flaws in his argument. I should have left it at an acknowledgement that what he said was offensive and moved on. I'm not concerned at all with what Casey's opinions are. And, I'm pretty sure that the FACT that rap is music (according to the definition that Casey himself provided) has been established in this thread.

well, i think the point is that no one can have an opinion unless it's your opinion. when someone disagrees with you or says something you don't like, you start trashing them and saying goofy crap to keep the argument going.

you just can't let it go. you are one of those kind of guys that has to be right. the whole thing started with me putting quotation marks around the word "music," before the word rap (in a joking and fun response to the original thread's subject). it didn't involve anyone and it definitely didn't have anything to do with you.

you jump on and start a freakin' flame war yet once again. dude, you have over 3000 posts on this forum. you are indeed opinionated about recording, but what you put out (engineering wise), can't keep up with your ego.

you need to start practicing what you're preaching and improve on your own engineering skills before you tell everyone else how to think.

subatomic, i wish all the best for you...but i will say that you will not get very far in life if you always have to be right. you just can't be wrong can you? im not trying to be mean, but bro, you take this stuff way too seriously.

my fault in all of this is falling for your game over and over. it's fun isn't it?

btw: it's still my opinion that rap is poetry and not music. so, what's it to you?

also - i like steak. it's my opinion that it's rather tasty. but i indeed mean no offense to any vegetarians out there either!

and yes...please lock this thread before sub-atomic comes up with a fight about how awful it is that i like steak.

[chris harris]

you are indeed opinionated about recording, but what you put out (engineering wise), can't keep up with your ego.

you need to start practicing what you're preaching and improve on your own engineering skills before you tell everyone else how to think.

See, Casey.... ^THIS^ is an opinion. And, though I disagree with it, I respect your right to have it. I think that it's petty and pathetic to inject this particular opinion into this discussion. But, that just reinforces MY OPINION that you're a pathetic, pitiable person.

subatomic, i wish all the best for you...but i will say that you will not get very far in life if you always have to be right. you just can't be wrong can you?

Well, as much as you'd like the truth to be otherwise, very few of my 3000 posts are dedicated to calling you out for being a fool. In fact, I've learned a lot on these forums over the years, and have admitted in these forums to being wrong on several occasions.

im not trying to be mean, but bro, you take this stuff way too seriously.

There it is. Good boy.

btw: it's still my opinion that rap is poetry and not music. so, what's it to you?

That's fine if that's your opinion. But backpedaling on the case you were attempting to make that it was indeed a FACT, even going as far as to quote a(misinterpreted) reference from the Dictionary, is exactly what makes you sad and pathetic.

Re-read the definition that you provided. If you need help, it's been provided. It makes the case rather well that rap is in FACT music. Rap IS poetry in a musical form. Rap doesn't even have to be set to a music track in order to BE music. Poetry delivered in a rhythmic way IS music. According to the definition you provided, when interpreted by someone literate, is that the rhythm MAKES IT music.

If you disagree with your own facts, as a way of forming your "opinion", I don't really see any value in arguing with you other than to continue to highlight your foolishness.

You're the one being hard headed and stubborn here, in the face of the FACTS THAT YOU YOURSELF PROVIDED!

If you'd like me to admit that I'm wrong about this, then let me know what I'm wrong about. Rap IS music, according to the definition you were (mis)using to make your point that it isn't. You WEREN'T treating it as your "opinion", when you were offering supporting evidence and trying to make a case that it is a fact that rap is not music.

Saying that it's your "opinion" that rap is not music, after yourself providing EVIDENCE that it is, is like saying it's your "opinion" that the earth is flat!

[casey campbell]

you mean the earth is not flat? rats!

[chris harris]

Casey, I've moved this discussion over here:

http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopic.php?t=72569

It has nothing to do with this plugin and I apologize to Joel for soiling up this thread with this nonsense.

[metanoiastudios]

Casey, I've moved this discussion over here:

http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopic.php?t=72569

It has nothing to do with this plugin and I apologize to Joel for soiling up this thread with this nonsense.

And thankfully that link doesn't work. Does that mean you're finally done fueling this "nonsense"? or will continue to go through great lengths to make sure everybody knows that you've emerged victorious in this "debate"? seriouly dude, get off your high horse. No one cares anymore.

I'd like to go ahead and read about audio-related stuff, being that it is what TapeOp is supposedly all about

[phantom power]

Joel,

I think we need a beta version of Perspective just for this thread.

-AE

[joel hamilton]

Well, thank you all for the fart keg this thread turned into while I was in the mountains on my Ducati.

Locked out of respect for all that is actually interesting in the world.