Penis Envy and Drum Recording

[Ryan Silva]

So many of the Albums I love and adore were recorded with no more than 5 drum mics.

Yet every time I suggest to a drummer that we may want to go minimal on the setup, they think I?m fricken nuts.

?Do you not have enough microphones? I have some 57?s if you need them?

Does it come down to insecurity?

?What do you mean your not going to put a mic on the High Hat!?!?

Um? you have a HH mic; it?s called Overheads.

Now before you guys get too worked up, obviously there are some times when you want absolute isolation, and proximity, but I?m getting this from Blues drummers, Indie Drummers, Straight rock drummers. Only the Jazz folks seem to expect and embrace minimalism.

It?s like when you move the U87 over to make room for a SM7, and the vocalist looks at you like ?I want my money back?.

You guys feel me on this?

Thanks

[Corey Y]

I just did some tracking for the band I play bass in and went with a minimal setup (kick, snare top, xy overhead) so we could track live all together. Despite the fact that it's heavy metal and having giant kits with a mic placed on everything is certainly common. I actually told our drummer if he wanted more mics on his kit I could run my bass DI only and reamp later or something and he talked me back into only using 4 mics. It was actually 5, with a mono room mic, but I didn't use it. So it's not everyone.

I have experienced that quite a lot myself though. Those "don't you want to get a mic on each of my cymbals individually and my bongos/gong/chimes too?" types.

[chris harris]

The best way to silence a backseat engineer is to hit play and blow their minds with what comes out of the monitors.

[kslight]

I usually prefer a fairly minimal setup...kick, snare, and stereo overheads (LDC spaced pair). I find hi hat mics worthless I never have a real use for it, if I record one I almost always mute the track by the time it's over because I never need more hi hat... Tom mics I rarely like, usually too much bleed and require excessive gating, eq, and compression to sound good, and even then it'd have to be a real tom heavy person to make it worth the time..if I need tom mics it's usually for sound replacer later anyway. Unless you are short tracks I say if it appeases your clients then put up a "normal" amount of mics and record the tracks anyway...and either use them or don't... If it sounds good your way no harm no foul, if they want more toms or hi hat or whatever you are covered.

[The Scum]

How much studio experience do the drummers in question have?

If you're coming from a live background, they may be used to seeing lots of mics on the kit. Even the midsize venues around here mic the hats...and of course they close mic every drum. Live sound can demand that the sound setup be quick and easy, one-size-fits-all selections. There seem to be a number of studios that work that way, too.

If it's all they've ever seen, then it's all they know.

Some gentle education about how things differ in the studio might be called for - that we can tailor the room and the kit to the song, and try to catch it naturally. A clever drummer can be turned into an accomplice in this regard.

[jgimbel]

subatomic pieces called it, you can say "let's try it my way, then play it back". That's worked for me before. If it really is a case of "this is the way I think it's supposed to be and I can't get that out of my head", maybe you can spit off a bunch of really successful records (or ones similar to what they like) that have used minimal setups. Really the best thing is explaining that the drums are one instrument and a mic on each thing isn't always the best option/use your ears not your expecations, though it sounds like in this situation showing that you know what you're doing isn't something that seems to help, unfortunately. You could always put up mics on each thing and not use them, if it came down to something being THAT tricky. It'd be a real shame to have to do that though, but also a shame to be put in the situation where the person really doesn't trust you.

[vvv]

Really the best thing is explaining that the drums are one instrument and a mic on each thing isn't always the best option.....

Mebbe tell 'em that if you mic every drum, next thing is, the bassist and guitarist is gonna want you to mic every string ...

Well, upright and acoustic, anywhat.

[cgarges]

I have definitely had this kind of vibe show up on sessions before. The hi hat thing is kind of common and I usually tell them that if they hear the playback and still think the hi hat isn't loud enough, we'll put a mic up. But yeah, it'd be a rare thing for me to do minimal miking on a quick session with a band I don't know anything about. It's rare that a drummer can dig on that without knowing anything about recording.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[nordberg]

they came to you to record. that seems to be the hardest thing to convince a band. after that every other thing should be easy!

tell them to do their jobs and you'll do your's... and tell it to them with a smile/smirk.

-mike

[losthighway]

I must admit I rarely have this problem. My clients are sometimes trusting to the point that I have to ask them to listen more critically during setup so they don't start grumbling about how it wasn't what they imagined 12 sessions later.

I have never, ever used a hi hat mic, and have never, ever regretted it. I'm sure a situation could occur, but year after year, it hasn't.

I've been getting really stoked on this abstraction called "presence". I feel like with a solid phase relationship, a nice well-tuned instrument, and any of several well-loved techniques you can get a starting place that can go about anywhere. It's like, if things sound real, and up-front you have a starting point that can lend itself to anything. It's easy to get things to sound "dreamy", "lo-fi", or "brutal" during the mix phase.

[nordberg]

I've been getting really stoked on this abstraction called "presence". I feel like with a solid phase relationship, a nice well-tuned instrument, and any of several well-loved techniques you can get a starting place that can go about anywhere. It's like, if things sound real, and up-front you have a starting point that can lend itself to anything. It's easy to get things to sound "dreamy", "lo-fi", or "brutal" during the mix phase.

+57 well put.

[jgimbel]

Seriously, great post losthighway.

[Nick Sevilla]

"You play the drums, and I'll record them."

I usually do have a test recording session during which the band can listen to their own instrument, and then if there are any adjustments we do it right there and then.

Certainly not before pushing record to get some basic sounds we can play back, though.

Cheers

[mwerden]

anywhat is a great word

[Jay Reynolds]

Take their sticks and tell them "I'll be in the lounge. Let me know when you're done hanging mics."