How to tell a guitarist he didn't make the cut?

[Recycled_Brains]

My band tried out a 2nd guitarist last nigh. Totally awesome dude, that I see everyday when I buy my morning coffee (he's a barista, or whatever you call it). Over the past few months we got talking about music and such, and turns out he's into a lot of the same shit, studied with the same gtr. teacher in college, jammed with people I know, was way into my old band, etc.... Fig'd, "hey, this dude should come try out!"

We're not actively seeking out a 2nd guitarist, but are open to the idea, so I fig'd he'd be a good candidate.

Anyways... had him over last week, taught him a song, then he came to practice last night with some parts that he had worked on for it. I will say, that he is a REALLY good guitar player. He obviously worked very hard and put a lot of thought into what he showed us last night.

Yet, it just didn't feel right. His parts were completely changing the feel of the song (a song we've been playing for a while now, and love). Just not appropriate. Like he didn't "get" what we are going for and where we are coming from, doesn't really bring the same intensity that the rest of us do.... I also heard some stuff he wrote, and didn't dig it either. Again, good, but just not my thing, and def. not the sort of thing the band does.

We all decided he's not really a good fit stylistically. As I said, he's a great player, just not the right player. His sound doesn't really work either. Dual Rectifier/Les Paul Special vs. my 50w JMP/vintage SG combo.... just doesn't work for our overall sound.

What it really comes down to, is that we sound better when it's just the 4 of us in the room raging with each other.

I've never had to do this before... How do I break it to him that it's not going to work out? Any pointers?

It's rough, because I'm still going to see him everyday, and we have mutual friends and stuff, so I want to avoid making it awkward.

[sfsonarboy]

I generally find that communicating these kinda things honestly, briefly, and directly (like the positive way you describe the situation in your post) gives the best chance of things going smoothly. I try to envision myself on the other side of these conversations: Even if I'm not happy about what I'm being told, it's much easier to move forward when the message comes from an honest and understanding space. Tough though and never fun...

[suppositron]

Ouch. That's kinda like dating someone you work with. If it doesn't work out it's gonna be awkward every time you see them.

Just flat out tell him what you already wrote. Telling him he's a great guitar player but not right stylistically really shouldn't hurt his ego. Or maybe it's just a matter of telling him the direction you guys want to go in. Maybe he just came up with a different idea and thought he was bringing something to the table and that you guys were looking for a change.

[Recycled_Brains]

Appreciate the advice!

Or maybe it's just a matter of telling him the direction you guys want to go in. Maybe he just came up with a different idea and thought he was bringing something to the table and that you guys were looking for a change.

I've considered that, but there are certain things about his personality and his technique, etc. that make me realize that he just isn't in the same mindset when we're playing. And in fairness, I did have a discussion with him about where I'm coming from when I write the songs, and why I do what I do, and the direction I see the band going, what we don't want, etc.

I remember the first time the drummer and I jammed. It was like "holy shit, this is incredible!". Just instantly knew it was right. Then the bassist came into the fold, and it was the same thing. He just came in and blew us away. Just FELT good, got me more excited about the songs. Then the singer tried out... as soon as he opened his mouth and started screaming (we're a metal/hardcore band), we all started headbanging and raging out like we were playing a show. It was a special moment.

That didn't happen last night. That's what I wanted to happen, but it just didn't. I think if the person is right for the band, we'll just know, and he/she will instintively know what to do, because he/she is on the same page as the rest of us.

[Jitters]

You were able to sum up a lot of good things about the guys personality and playing, so I would go at it like that.

Let him anticipate the 'but' while you compliment him. That way he already knows and is smiling by the time you tell him.

Much, much better than the other way around: "I don't think it's going to work out, but..."

[kslight]

Just be honest, like others said. I think direct closure would be appreciated by him versus the alternative. Or you could save $$$ and make your own coffee .

[CedarSound]

Yep...just be honest.

If you tell him all the things you said to us, I don't see how he could fault you... I mean, imagine if he had come in and TOTALLY SUCKED?

Trust me, I've been in that scenario too and it is a real drag...

[roscoenyc]

I generally find that communicating these kinda things honestly, briefly, and directly (like the positive way you describe the situation in your post) gives the best chance of things going smoothly. I try to envision myself on the other side of these conversations: Even if I'm not happy about what I'm being told, it's much easier to move forward when the message comes from an honest and understanding space. Tough though and never fun...

Straightforward is the way to go.
Guy prepared like a pro. Didn't work out.
Be straight with the guy. He'll apreciate it.
No harm/No foul.

[dave watkins]

i was just writing a bunch of stuff about the only time i got rejected from a project and how i really appreciated the direct no bullshit approach. and then i remembered this nada surf song from the 90's, and it kinda just sums it up perfectly with a few edits:

Three important rules for breaking up
Don't put off breaking up when you know you want to
Prolonging the situation only makes it worse
Tell him honestly, simply, kindly, but firmly
Don't make a big production
Don't make up an elaborate story
This will help you avoid a big tear jerking scene
If you don't want to add more people to your band just say so
Be prepared for the dude to feel hurt and rejected
Even if you've gone together for only a short time,
And haven't been too serious,
There's still a feeling of rejection
When someone says they prefer the company of existing band members
To your additional company,
But if you're honest, and direct,
And avoid making a flowery emotional speech when you brake the news,
The dude will respect you for your frankness,
And honestly he'll appreciate the kind of straight forward manner
In which you told him your decision
Unless he's a real jerk or a cry baby you will remain friends.

[chris harris]

I know that song was kind of "novelty" at the time... but, what a great song!

[Corey Y]

Add my opinion to the "honest, polite, direct" pile. Sometimes musicians are fantastic players and just don't fit a band. I've played in plenty of bands with a very particular sound that players better than myself just didn't "click" with, it happens.

[Recycled_Brains]

I mean, imagine if he had come in and TOTALLY SUCKED?

Then it would be easier! haha.

Thanks for the advice guys! Making me feel more confident about dealing with it. He doesn't strike me as the type that will get overly upset, or harbor any sort of grudge.

Was talking to our bassist last night, he wants to give the guy another chance, but I think it's kind of futile. He just loves the idea of having another guitarist, and I think the excitement of the possibility is making it hard for him to say "no". I told him that it will be totally awesome, if/when we find the right person. Def. no obligation to pick the first person we try out.

[Gentleman Jim]

I mean, imagine if he had come in and TOTALLY SUCKED?

Then it would be easier! haha.

No way, trust me on this one. I once had to tell an old friend I knew from high school that I wasn't joining his band because their songs were lame, they all played badly, and I thought the entire direction they were going was weak. I tried to play it off by just saying that I didn't think I was the guy they were looking for, but he wouldn't take any hints whatsoever. (and I'm far from a subtle guy) So after an hour and a half on the phone with him grilling me for my "honest opinions and thoughts" about the band, I ended up - piece by piece - insulting everything they were doing and how they were doing it.

He then took offense, and told a few mutual friends that I had called him up, told him his band, (which was his dream), was total crap and beneath me, and then hung up. Nothing could have been further from the truth. It took me showing the length of the call on my next cell phone bill to finally convince one of my friends that I wasn't that much of an asshole.

[MrWiegand]

So after an hour and a half on the phone with him grilling me for my "honest opinions and thoughts" about the band, I ended up - piece by piece - insulting everything they were doing and how they were doing it.

you a$$hole.

I joined a band as a second guitarist about a year and a half ago.. They first asked me if I wanted to try out because I helped them out with background vocals and little guitar parts when I was interning at a studio.. they were the funniest dudes, which was enough for me, but they were also really talented musicians.

The first time I jammed with them I only played with the drummer and the lead guitarist (who are brothers) and I totally thought that I didn't fit their style at all. I was nervous and the drummer plays this crazy shuffle sh*t that I was not used to. I sucked and I was kind of expecting them to let me know it.. but they didn't. They just told me I was good and that we could jam again the next week. I played a couple of smaller shows with them and eventually learned all of their covers and originals and kind of just eased my way in, slowly adjusting to their style and just trying to add something while not being too much of a stand-out shredmaster on stage

After about a year it finally came up and they were like "yea dude that first jam session... you weren't that good, but you definitely stepped it up and were glad to have you in the band" lol

The most important thing in a band is the relationships. We all got along really well and that's what kept me in the band. Maybe keep him around to jam with every once in a while and perhaps eventually he'll evolve into what you are looking for.. but definitely just tell him exactly what you told us, and that musically he isn't a good fit for the band right now.. he will understand.

Good luck dude

[Jon Nolan]

I generally find that communicating these kinda things honestly, briefly, and directly (like the positive way you describe the situation in your post) gives the best chance of things going smoothly. I try to envision myself on the other side of these conversations: Even if I'm not happy about what I'm being told, it's much easier to move forward when the message comes from an honest and understanding space. Tough though and never fun...

+1