Cheap alternatives to 703???

kevin206 · Post by **kevin206** » Thu Sep 02, 2010 8:16 pm

I'm closing in on the completion of a new building to house my rehearsal/studio space. Approx. 24x35 built like a garage. 9' walls, peaked ceiling at 12' or so. OSB covered walls, Warehouse style ceiling insulation...fiberglass covered with white vinyl. Time will tell how it sounds but I think the open space will help.
So, there is no $$$$ to spend, but I may need to tame the highs a bit. 2x4 703 panels would be great, but it's not in the budget now. How would standard insulation do? Should it be left fluffy or compressed? Am I wasting my time with it?

norton · Post by **norton** » Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:25 pm

What's "warehouse style insulation"? White Vinyl??

The OSB walls are definitely going to make things lively... and not very isolated from the outside either.

As far as alternatives to rigid fiberglass... your next cheapest, and really the only practical alternative is rockwool a.k.a. mineral fiber. You should be able to find rigid fiberglass for under or right about at $1/sq foot.

The mineral fiber is a little less. try the industrial search engine.. thomasnet.com

For acoustic performance, there really aren't many options that will work as well as rigid fiberglass or rockwool. For taming high frequencies, any soft relatively dense material will work.. couch cushions, old mattresses... curtains... carpet.. etc.

I'd say that unless you're going to be getting your materials for free or next to nothing, you'll be better off in the long run going slow and building your acoustic treatments out of 703/813 etc.. one at a time.

jnTracks · Post by **jnTracks** » Fri Sep 03, 2010 3:18 am

rockwool is a cheaper alternative to 703. as i understand it, it's basically identical to 703 acoustically.

Ted White · Post by **Ted White** » Fri Sep 03, 2010 5:59 am

Aren't there NRC values for the various materials online? Generally there's one product that has all the buzz, but other products have the same physical properties and are less costly.

kevin206 · Post by **kevin206** » Fri Sep 03, 2010 6:15 am

Ted White · Post by **Ted White** » Fri Sep 03, 2010 6:19 am

Is that insulation attached to studs? There's a reasonable air cavity back there that has largely uncompressed insulation?

kevin206 · Post by **kevin206** » Fri Sep 03, 2010 7:02 am

Actually, those are stock pics. On my building, I have 2" rigid foam insulation covered with OSB. Lots of airspace all around! No stud walls. Upright posts 5' apart with horizontal bands that the OSB is attached to. Sound transmission through walls isn't a problem where I am Located. The Ceiling Insulation will be attached by glueing A special type of nail to the bottom of my metal roof. Then the 6" fiberglass insulation with white vinyl covering is impaled on the nails. A special washer then goes over the exposed part of the nail to hold it all together. This is typical of a working garage or warehouse in my area. In the summer, radiant heat through the ceiling is unbearable. In the winter, If you try to heat a building like this, the ceiling will sweat. This is also a problem in late spring and early fall even without heating.
So far, without insulation, because of the orientation of the building along with the vaulted ceiling, I'm noticing that it it 10-15 degreesF cooler than the garage I'm rehearsing in. I'll have a large deisel forced air furnace for heat. I have plans for a window AC unit with 2 ceiling fans. The AC may be a problem because the windows are pretty small for a larger 240v unit.

ott0bot · Post by **ott0bot** » Fri Sep 03, 2010 4:49 pm

There is a similar prduct called Johns-Manville Rigid Fiberglass that is a little cheaper. But....I've had a hard time finding anywhere that sells it in my area.

http://www.soundaway.com/Acoustic_Fiber ... s_s/29.htm

norton · Post by **norton** » Sat Sep 04, 2010 8:05 am

WWW.Thomasnet.com

you'll find it in your area.

Anthony Caruso · Post by **Anthony Caruso** » Sat Sep 04, 2010 5:28 pm

I've been on the lookout for similar 703 alternatives and found this really great page:

http://www.bobgolds.com/AbsorptionCoefficients.htm

lancebug · Post by **lancebug** » Sat Sep 04, 2010 6:38 pm

I have had good luck with the Roxul Rockboard 60. $50 per 6pack of 2'x4'x2". There's a few other options on the same page. Supposedly there is also something called Ultratouch, which is supposed to be made out of recycled blue jeans, which in theory would be less itchy that rockwool.

Snarl 12/8 · Post by **Snarl 12/8** » Sat Sep 04, 2010 7:34 pm

lancebug wrote:I have had good luck with the Roxul Rockboard 60. $50 per 6pack of 2'x4'x2". There's a few other options on the same page. Supposedly there is also something called Ultratouch, which is supposed to be made out of recycled blue jeans, which in theory would be less itchy that rockwool.

It is less itchy than rockwool, which is by far less itchy than fiberglass. But I'm not convinced about the acoustic properties of Ultratouch, at least the way I have it installed.

chorga1 · Post by **chorga1** » Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:36 am

If you can deal with the floppiness - ultratouch is fuckin awesome! I can get it locally for less than 703, but it requires frames for support.

Bob golds site states its effectiveness - almost as good as 703 4" - plus it's easier on the lungs.

norton · Post by **norton** » Mon Sep 06, 2010 11:20 am

You should be able to source JM 813 for around or under $1 a sq foot. at the 2" thickness.

I've never seen ultra touch anywhere near that price.

I won't touch the insulation without nitrile gloves (walgreens) Cutting it works best with a serrated bread knife. Really isn't much of a hassle.

Rock wool is a different story.

chorga1 · Post by **chorga1** » Mon Sep 06, 2010 2:30 pm

Here's someone online with 5.5" ultratouch for $1 sq ft

http://www.homegreenhome.biz/ultratouchinsulation.html

Locally it's around $0.80 sq ft

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Cheap alternatives to 703???

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