ITB to OTB

[megajoe]

I've always had full access to a university or commercial studio, until I moved to rural MO to take care of my gramma. Because of that, I've never had more that a minimal amount of my own gear.

I've got a G4 powerbook, new mac mini, mbox, logic, PT, 3 SM57s, Grado SR225s & drums, guitars, analog synths, keyboards, etc..

I want to get out of the box though! I'm figuring start at both ends of the post-computer chain and work my way to the middle. Oh, and I'm trying to do with a tiny budget. So, monitors & work on my room, a Steinberg MR816 & a Masterlink to start.

From there I think I can build a lot of the other parts. I have a old Peavey Stereo 800 that I want to rip the pres out of (the output stages are wasted), could be a cool sound. Build a 16 channel summing amp, the Gyraf SSL buss compressor, some sort of EQ...

I don't know if I have the patience to try a mixing console build and it would be a while before I can afford one I think is worth buying. I'd also like to have analog capability eventually, but I don't want to bother 'till after I have a console.

Any suggestions for someone trying to escape the box? Maybe a better order of operations?

[Corey Y]

I recently went through a big shift in my approach to my recording setup and went ITB, but invested a significant amount of time and money to planning out and treating my mixing space. I used to mix OTB with a digital mixer and HD recorder in a big open warehouse were I did my tracking and most of my budget for my setup went to outboard gear. Now I'm using Logic on an iMac and mixing in my office at home, which I remodeled with acoustic treatments, the placement of which was carefully planned out and refined (some of it with feedback from people on this forum) along with purchasing new monitors. Shifting my priorities away from outboard gear and towards treating my space and improving my monitoring made a huge difference in my mixes. Also, even though I know no plug-in is exactly like its hardware counterpart, there is something to be said for buying just one and being able to use it on as many tracks as you like.

The point I'm making is if you're starting off with your own setup you might be better served by starting out with a good computer/daw/interface setup (researching those purchases deserves their own threads) and putting most of your financial investment in acoustic treatment and quality monitoring solutions. I think some just ok plug-ins and a great mixing space will yield you better results than the other way around. You can always expand to mixing OTB later if you plan ahead for that when choosing a DAW and interface.

Speaking more from mistakes than successes here. Others may disagree, your mileage my vary, etc.

[lefthanddoes]

I'm a fan of doing everything in the box and then putting the mix through a summing amp. (or a desktop mixer in my case.) Anybody feel like digging up that thread where people built their own passive summing boxes?

Hopefully this thread will not degrade into an argument between people who have tried using a summing box and like it and people who haven't tried it and think it isn't worth it.

[Nick Sevilla]

Hi,

Save your money until you can afford something worth buying.

Even if it is tinkering with soldering land...

I use this console and it give me good results :

http://www.glseries.com/US/gl2800.asp

I am considering modifying it, since it is now out of warranty... but I am testing things first. This mod is more for my own craziness. The console sounds great just as it is. Blows any Mackie, and any other comparably priced console.

Cheers

[megajoe]

Thanks for the replies. What you're saying about working on my room makes sense. I don't have monitors yet cause I was thinking "why bother when I don't have the room set up for 'em?" I don't have the room set up because this building is falling apart and will be torn down in a year. It's pretty bad. (the half of the duplex I live in isn't as bad).

Fortunately, because of that, I have the freedom to modify and tear up this place however I want. I should probably think of this as opportunity to experiment with a building before I go and screw up a nicer one.

I like the idea of mixing inside the box though. Sometimes I used to use the SSL G6000 like a summing amp & run the mix through the buss compressor to my 2-track. I want to recreate something like that w/ a summing amp and then have my 2-track running through outboard gear before printing it.

[Corey Y]

I was actually in a similar situation where my old space was temporary, but I tried to anticipate for the future when buying acoustic treatment. I bought 8 RealTraps BareTraps while I was still in my old warehouse, with the idea of rigging them up with stands to help control my mixing environment, but thinking about what essentials I would need once I moved into a smaller room. So I figured 4 bass traps (corners) and 4 for early reflection points. Once I moved into my office at home for mixing I figured out the best locations for what I had and then ordered a few more things to fill in the gaps (cloud on the ceiling, behind the monitors). Our own JWL helped me quite a bit with planning out the purchase and figuring out the transfer to a new setup at home.

The DIY route is always an option too, if you've got the free time, motivation and skills to make it worthwhile. There are a lot of resources online including and besides TapeOp. Others have much more insight into summing amps and ITB/OTB debates, but I don't think many people would argue that it's a worthwhile investment to get your listening/mixing environment squared away. The best performance through a world class mic into great gear can sound like ass if it's mixed in a terrible room. Then again, you might be a complete badass and be able to mix a masterpiece in a closet with earbuds, so take my advice with a grain of salt in that case.

[Snarl 12/8]

Can you afford an Allen and Heath Zed R16? Maybe if you sold your converters and some other stuff?

[megajoe]

I totally agree with you, I just had my head in two different places on that post. I can assure you, I'm not that particular badass, there's a world's difference when I mix in a studio. I just have an obsession with building gear cause I have for fun soldering and wiring stuff up, which can get in the way of more important things, like environment.

I will be doing this all DIY. I'm thinking I'm going to use the living room in the other half of the building as a recording space. Might be a semi-permanent setup... I can always tear the whole thing down piece by piece. If my grandparents moved a 24' x 40' brick barn from Iowa to their place, I feel like I could handle moving some lumber and insulation.

I have the Master Handbook of Acoustics, which I skimmed though 5 years ago, but I'm going to start googling DIY acoustic stuff too.

One thing I love about tape op is I usually get a completely different answer than what I was expecting, then it's like "man, that makes so much more sense" Thanks for the help!

[Nick Sevilla]

Thanks for the replies. What you're saying about working on my room makes sense. I don't have monitors yet cause I was thinking "why bother when I don't have the room set up for 'em?" I don't have the room set up because this building is falling apart and will be torn down in a year. It's pretty bad. (the half of the duplex I live in isn't as bad).

Fortunately, because of that, I have the freedom to modify and tear up this place however I want. I should probably think of this as opportunity to experiment with a building before I go and screw up a nicer one.

I like the idea of mixing inside the box though. Sometimes I used to use the SSL G6000 like a summing amp & run the mix through the buss compressor to my 2-track. I want to recreate something like that w/ a summing amp and then have my 2-track running through outboard gear before printing it.

Wooo... that looks like it's going to fall apart without any help. better be careful, get yourself some construction helmets...

[Peterson Goodwyn]

If I were to build a DIY OTB rig, I would probably get one of the 11-space 51x Alliance racks and start filling it with goodies. There's a GSSL, and some eqs already out, with an optical comp and an 1176 on the way. I am loathe to push my own website, but I just did a roundup of the DIY modules yesterday.

[megajoe]

yeah, that photo was for dramatic effect. My half is ok. The front room in the other half is ok too, but one you get into the kitchen/bedroom are it's pretty horrifying. One idea is to build a wall so that all you see is the front room and get that one in shape. Although as I'm putting plans together, posts about it would be more appropriate in the 'design a space' forum.

Meathands, cool site! Glad you pushed it.