It seems to me that over in the US there is much more of an internship culture, which despite my mixed feelings on unpaid work is probably for the best. At least there is a fairly established route into the industry.
Over here I'm not sure if such a system really exists. I'm trying to find something to occupy myself with while I'm unemployed (at least until my benefits run out), and although a few studios have offered to let me drop in on a few sessions there seems to be little in the way of more permanent positions.
I have a BSc degree in music technology which I really gained little from, and there was certainly no opportunity for work experience as part of the course. I've mostly be contacting relatively smalltime studios in central Bristol rather than the likes of Real World or Rockfield, which are just about commutable if I could afford a car (I can't). Maybe this is my mistake? I always get the impression that the smaller one or two man studios wouldn't see me as an extra pair of hands, more as someone else to get in the way.
I'm just looking to get a few views from either UK based studio owners/ engineers or anyone looking for something similar over here. Like a lot of graduates I've got a fair amount of theoretical knowledge but would be laughable if thrown in at the deep end on a session, so I'm really struggling to find a way in here.
Or is this US/ UK divide all in my head?
UK-centric internship advice.
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rocky
- alignin' 24-trk
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Hey James,
I see no one has pitched in here for you.
As a UK/Ireland based studio owner and someone who worked my way into a recording job many years ago, I thought I'd give you some pointers that are true to my experience.
As a studio owner in a small city in a very small country I receive approximately 10-15 requests a week for internships, work experience or job openings.
Most of these are from university students studying music technology.
Truth be told, this puts me off. I'd rather find the kid who went straight out of school and had the drive and commitment to learn the basics and work themselves into their dream job. This is possibly biased thinking, based on my own path. It's probably very similar to most engineers older than me.
My first advice would be: Don't send a standard CV, certainly not one that tells me that you "work well alone or as part of a group." Or one with references from a cafe manager you worked at in Ballyblahblah 10 years ago when you were fifteen.
I'd rather hear the demo your band made when you were fifteen.
I want to know what you've recorded, your favourite band/producer/album/song, what you think your skills/attributes are (truthfully and non-arrogantly) and how they could actually make my life/studio better.
The people I've taken a punt on have been the people I've met at shows, or who have called at the studio at just the right moment (luckily) Usually early in the day, before the band get there. I've felt a connection to them and decided to give them a chance. Out of all those, only one has worked on more than one project with me.
Take a read through the various intern threads on here about how to behave etc.
It's pretty straight forward stuff. However, every single "intern" bar one that I've had have fallen down on a real fundamental issue that fill the "bad intern" threads here.
You could be lucky and find the right person at just that point in their lives when they need someone to help them out.
With the one or two man studios you mentioned: Make them feel like you are really helping them, rather than getting in the way. Bring bands in to track in their facilities, do whatever it takes to get in there. When you're in, be the best you can be (like the world's best intern/assistant engineer) If you're lucky, you might get a call at some point.
Call them up and offer to paint their walls, clean their toilets, put up shelves,
sweep the halls. That stuffs useful and they sure as hell would rather someone else was doing it.
Treat Rockfield the same way. They have open dates from time to time.
Get a band of friends that trust you to chip in with you on hiring Rockfield
with a younger engineer. Make a recording in there, be the best you can be.
Worst case, you recorded in Rockfield.
The best advice I can give is to surround yourself with musicians whose music makes you feel amazing. Try your best to offer them something special and unique that makes them feel that they cannot be without.
Take an adventure with these musicians and try and stop off at all the things that you're hoping to achieve. They'll probably change along the way.
I see no one has pitched in here for you.
As a UK/Ireland based studio owner and someone who worked my way into a recording job many years ago, I thought I'd give you some pointers that are true to my experience.
As a studio owner in a small city in a very small country I receive approximately 10-15 requests a week for internships, work experience or job openings.
Most of these are from university students studying music technology.
Truth be told, this puts me off. I'd rather find the kid who went straight out of school and had the drive and commitment to learn the basics and work themselves into their dream job. This is possibly biased thinking, based on my own path. It's probably very similar to most engineers older than me.
My first advice would be: Don't send a standard CV, certainly not one that tells me that you "work well alone or as part of a group." Or one with references from a cafe manager you worked at in Ballyblahblah 10 years ago when you were fifteen.
I'd rather hear the demo your band made when you were fifteen.
I want to know what you've recorded, your favourite band/producer/album/song, what you think your skills/attributes are (truthfully and non-arrogantly) and how they could actually make my life/studio better.
The people I've taken a punt on have been the people I've met at shows, or who have called at the studio at just the right moment (luckily) Usually early in the day, before the band get there. I've felt a connection to them and decided to give them a chance. Out of all those, only one has worked on more than one project with me.
Take a read through the various intern threads on here about how to behave etc.
It's pretty straight forward stuff. However, every single "intern" bar one that I've had have fallen down on a real fundamental issue that fill the "bad intern" threads here.
You could be lucky and find the right person at just that point in their lives when they need someone to help them out.
With the one or two man studios you mentioned: Make them feel like you are really helping them, rather than getting in the way. Bring bands in to track in their facilities, do whatever it takes to get in there. When you're in, be the best you can be (like the world's best intern/assistant engineer) If you're lucky, you might get a call at some point.
Call them up and offer to paint their walls, clean their toilets, put up shelves,
sweep the halls. That stuffs useful and they sure as hell would rather someone else was doing it.
Treat Rockfield the same way. They have open dates from time to time.
Get a band of friends that trust you to chip in with you on hiring Rockfield
with a younger engineer. Make a recording in there, be the best you can be.
Worst case, you recorded in Rockfield.
The best advice I can give is to surround yourself with musicians whose music makes you feel amazing. Try your best to offer them something special and unique that makes them feel that they cannot be without.
Take an adventure with these musicians and try and stop off at all the things that you're hoping to achieve. They'll probably change along the way.
Thanks for the reply, that's some solid advice. I've been getting more luck being a little more honest/ personal and less "professional" with my emails/ CVs. Got a few offers of some work experience type things at least.
On the whole most people I've talked to seem to suggest that the only way to get into full time studio engineering is to dive in and set up your own place from scratch, would you agree with that? Not that its at all realistic for me right now, both financially and in terms of ability/ confidence in the studio.
On the whole most people I've talked to seem to suggest that the only way to get into full time studio engineering is to dive in and set up your own place from scratch, would you agree with that? Not that its at all realistic for me right now, both financially and in terms of ability/ confidence in the studio.
I would agree to a certain extent about the intern culture being less prevalent in the UK, at least outside of the major studios and London. Many work experience programmes that do exist seem to be tied in to university courses. I also think that UK engineers/studios seem, on the whole, and this is a pretty major generalisation so take it with a huge pinch of salt, less informed by the internet than their american counterparts, for better or for worse (frequently both!).James B wrote:Thanks for the reply, that's some solid advice. I've been getting more luck being a little more honest/ personal and less "professional" with my emails/ CVs. Got a few offers of some work experience type things at least.
On the whole most people I've talked to seem to suggest that the only way to get into full time studio engineering is to dive in and set up your own place from scratch, would you agree with that? Not that its at all realistic for me right now, both financially and in terms of ability/ confidence in the studio.
Just to give an example of my own career, and an idea of what is achievable, I am currently a full time engineer/producer, with my work being, this year, split roughly 50/50 between recording and live sound. The year before that it was more 70/30 in favour of the live stuff. I don't earn massive amount of money but I have never failed to pay the rent. I did do a small amount of helping out at a local studio, although I had a decent route in due to me having been in a fairly well known band, but after that I basically dived in and did it.
I would strongly recommend getting some live sound work - you learn so much about frequency recognition, EQing, and the general mechanics of sound, and you get paid instantly and ungrudgingly in most cases. The best way to do recording stuff, in my opinion, if you don't have a way to record at home, is to track at affordable studios (obviously you may have to accept very low fees for you first few projects to facilitate this) and have a well treated mixing room at home that you mix in. This is how I work and it seems to be going fairly well at the moment.
Reading it back, the above seems pretty rambling and unfocused, as it was written as I thought of things rather than being thought out in advance, so sorry about that, but I wanted to get involved as it's nice to see a UK-centric post on the forum!
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