Getting rid of that nasty hi-gain guitar fizz

[metanoiastudios]

Hey guys,

I'm currently working on a hardcore album that's sounding very cool. Because of the nature of the genre, the guitars are very aggressive-sounding, and use a lot of distortion (the gain knob on my Egnater was cranked all the way up!). After phase-aligning all of the guitar tracks, the tone became a lot more "focused", but also revealed a treble-y, fizzy quality to it that gave the guitars a very "crunchy" feel. The band is going after a "smooth", hi-gain guitar sound, by the way.

The first thing I did was reach for an EQ, and found the problem to be around the 4K area. After notching out the issue, the guitars came alive, and certainly have a lot more clarity without being overly "crunchy". That quality is still there, but it's not overwhelming by any means, and probably could've been corrected at the tracking stage by using a different head, maybe a ribbon mic, etc.

Have any of you encountered a similar situation to mine? aside from notching out the problematic areas, have you guys taken a different approach, for example by using an EQ pedal before/after the amp, or using a de-esser to compress the upper frequencies without completely killing them off? very interested to hear your comments/suggestions.

Thanks!

[suppositron]

I think mic placement would be a good place to start. Try moving off axis a bit.

[suppositron]

And there's nothing wrong with eq if it gets you where you wanna be.

[kslight]

I try to take control of the amp and pedal settings before recording and oftentimes I go for a less is more approach on distortion, even with high gain. If they have pedals they could have a mismatched buffered pedal somewhere in the chain (EHX pedals are very weird like this sometimes, and it affects the tone whether or not it's turned on). I never compress distorted guitars, ideally I try to craft the tone at the front end with the amp and mic choice/position...usually a one mic kind of guy... Mics i reach for first are usually U47FET, Shure KSM44, Sennheiser E906, or AKG D112...


If all else fails de-rss and EQ seem like the next logical step.

[kslight]

I think mic placement would be a good place to start. Try moving off axis a bit.

For sure not to mention having a little distance between mic and speaker.

[Brett Siler]

Nothing wrong with EQ.
Generally on high gain stuff, I'll use dynamics right up on the grill. I usually don't put it right on the center of the speaker cone. It can way to bright/harsh/fizzy sounding. Basically at the center of the cone is where the speaker is it's brightest and the edge of the speaker is where it's the darkest. I like to find a spot that is a nice middle ground between the brightest at darkest parts of the speaker. Also you could put a mic on a brighter part of the speaker and another on a darker part of a speaker and blend to taste.

[tomberdude]

Set the amp right, get the mic placed in the "right" spot (as previously noted) and LPF. Done. For an example, see either of the Iceberg tracks in my myspace link.

-RL

[farview]

I tend to track the guitar sound relatively dark with a 57 where the cone meets the dust cover and a 421 about half way between the dust cover and the edge.

I normally only have to add some high shelf around 8k and maybe a littl low shelf around 100-150hz.

If you push the highs on the amp too much, some speakers get really peaky in the 3-5k range. If you keep the tone dark, when you brighten it up it ends up really smooth.

[Corey Y]

Microphone choice and placement work best for me when trying to get the "fizz" out, assuming the guitar tone already sounds good in the room. I've had an Audix I5 on a cab, gotten a fizzy sound, moved it around a bit, gotten better but not enough and then tossed an SM7b in the same position and had it sound perfect. I've used different dynamics, LDCs, ribbon mics, all sorts of different positioning. Whatever works to make what's coming out of the monitors/headphones what the guitarist hears on stage/in the room/in their head. I have no problem adding eq and compression to the listening mix to see what direction I might take in mixing (or just to know that I can get where I want when I've exhausted all my mechanical options). I know a lot of people go to "teach the guitarist how to get a good tone", which I think probably has a lot to do with age and experience of the client (not always). Personally I find it best to keep an attitude of adapting your gear choice/technique to what the situation calls for and not demanding that everyone else adapt their approach to tone to your chosen gear/technique. If I have a pair of SDCs on drum OH and I can't get them to not clip I pick another pair of microphones, not tell the drummer to play quieter. Part of that is blurring the line between engineer and producer, so I don't want to derail the conversation in that direction.

Not insulting anyone the approach or philosophy of anyone else, just presenting mine.

[TheRealRoach]

I'd be willing to bet that it's the head & cabinet choice and combination. Also The guitar is a factor in high gain tone, but not as much as head/cab.

What are you using? Do you have any other heads and cabinets that you can borrow or rent?

[tomberdude]

I'd be willing to bet that it's the head & cabinet choice and combination. Also The guitar is a factor in high gain tone, but not as much as head/cab.

What are you using? Do you have any other heads and cabinets that you can borrow or rent?

Paulo- If the above is the case and you are willing to reciprocate in some form down the road, I am down with volunteering my Rivera Knucklehead and/or Bogner OS 2x12 to your cause.

-RL

[metanoiastudios]

Thanks for all the feedback guys! I should probably clarify that everything has already been tracked, but I'll definitely take your suggestions into consideration on upcoming sessions. I was primarily looking for in-the-mix remedies, but notching out some of the fizz with EQ has proven to be effective enough.

If anyone wants to give me some feedback/suggestions, this is what I came up with (it isn't the final mix, BTW, but I may be getting close):

http://www.mediafire.com/file/4hdg8po40 ... newmix.mp3

I normally don't record hardcore or anything-core, so this has proven to be a lot of fun

Destroy Big Brother, long time to talk! I may take you up on that in the future...right now I have an Egnater Rebel 20, an Avatar 2x12 and a 1x10 that I sometimes use for bass. PS: The Iceberg stuff sounds great!

[tomberdude]

tsk, tsk on fixing it in the mix. if your previous work is any meter for judgment on this mix, i don't know how they would be unhappy once you are done. once you make room for vocals like you do i think it will sound great. am i mistaken or are you are kicking some ass with the Glyn Johns placement on drums?

these guys remind me of strike anywhere in a good way. i really want to hear vocals/lyrics. definitely let me know when it's done. i'd like to support these guys if this track is an indicator of what to expect from them.

thanks for the kind words, feel free to hit me up whenever. my contacts are still the same.

-RL

[Mane1234]

I've pretty much gone to using ribbons as much as possible for stuff like this and try my older preamps to start with. If I have time to do a quick playback then I may even go as far as pulling back the high end on the amp even if it means adding some back in during mix. I feel like I have a better amount of control this way. For some reason it's easier to add just a bit of top end in than to keep trying to pull it out.

[metanoiastudios]

am i mistaken or are you are kicking some ass with the Glyn Johns placement on drums?
-RL

No, just a spaced pair (414s). I'll have to try that next time I record a band like these guys though. It's my first time using samples, and I was a little hesitant to sound-replace stuff, so I had the drummer hit every drum at different velocities. I popped those samples into drumagog and blended them 60% with the actual snare and kick track, that way it still sounds like a real drum but you lose the dynamics without having to compress so hard.

Probably not a groundbreaking technique to you guys, but it is to me