Taming reflections in practice room

[mrb]

Hi,

I'd like to know your your ideas about this place I'm renting.
It's an old warehouse I want to use as a practice room and personal studio.
It's 23 X 16 feet.
Ceiling 13? feet, A small area has a mezzanine , ceiling here it's 7 feet.
Floor is painted concrete, brick walls.
metal garage door, which covers a good part of one of the 23? walls.

There isn't a separate control room. I was thinking about using the area just below the mezzanine as I think the 13' height area will be better for tracking.Maybe I can use some panels to separate it from the live area. Not sure.


I've been playing (not recording yet) and the place has too much room reflections . I?d like to tame them a bit, but I don't want a totally dry room.

What do you think of the position of the amps, drums, PA and console?

Where should I begin?. I was thinking about getting some carpets for the concrete floor and some absortion material for the wall behind the drums and the wall next to the mixer room.
I?ve been recommended a Project 2 kit but it's quite expensive.
Is it better to buy a lot of stuff or just a few of good quality panels and basstraps (Auralex or similar brands)?

Thanks in advance

[norton]

you will be underwhelmed by the performance of any foam "acoustic" product, no matter what the brand name.

Deep Purple used curtains and mattresses when they tracked "machine head" so I'm sure you can do something on the down and dirty.... but don't by foam.

Make your own stuff out of rigid fiberglass. it's cheap and easy to work with... or go with the ultra touch cotton stuff.

Both should be available for very near or under $1 a square foot. If you see prices out of line with those numbers, you're paying for someone else's golf game.

thomasnet.com is your friendly industrial materials search engine.

[mrb]

Thanks for your reply. so foam is just an hype? i've seen some project studios using it, just because it look nice?

The "Machine Head" story is cool but I think it's gonna cost me more to get enough curtains and mattresses than some of the stuff you recommend me.

I think I could try to making some of those: http://mysite.ncnetwork.net/resqg90a/id31.html for the wall behind the drums.


Do you think the position in the room of the equipment is right?
the drummer wanted to use the low ceiling area (painted green) but I think high ceiling are better for recording drums, aren't they?

[joninc]

getting

amps off the floor

some area rugs on the floor

and hang a few sleeping bags from the ceiling

will all help with clarity and less echos in the room.

[Snarl 12/8]

The more acoustical panels, superchunks and sound absorbtion you put in there the more you're going to like it. Hard floor, soft ceiling. Stay in the high ceilinged area.

[roscoenyc]

The more acoustical panels, superchunks and sound absorbtion you put in there the more you're going to like it. Hard floor, soft ceiling. Stay in the high ceilinged area.

Hard floor / soft ceiling. If you deaden the floor it will take the excitement away.
The real bad 'zing' comes from the ceiling. Especially make sure to deaden the ceiling above the drums, where your vocal mics are and where the PA is.

[mrb]

Thanks for your advice. So I'm leaving the floor as is, no rugs.

Ceiling is soft, foiled fiberglass panels and actually is more than 13 feet, about 17 feet so working on it's difficult for me.

Superchunk looks like a good idea
http://forum.studiotips.com/viewtopic.php?t=535
unless they have to fill the entire corner from floor (that's making 16 feet superchunks).
Do you think it doesn't worth if they are smaller (lets say 7 feet or so)?

If I'm not wrong Ethan Winer in this article http://www.ethanwiner.com/basstrap.html says that wall traps are moree appropiate for bigger rooms like mine. Room corner traps would be betterfor smaller rooms.
So, do you think I should give to Ethans panels a go?

[Ethan Winer]

Ethan Winer in this article http://www.ethanwiner.com/basstrap.html says that wall traps are moree appropiate for bigger rooms like mine. Room corner traps would be betterfor smaller rooms.
So, do you think I should give to Ethans panels a go?

These days I recommend fiberglass-based traps even for larger rooms like yours. A mix of corner traps and 4-inch thick 705 FRK spaced four inches off the walls is tough to beat. Not only for performance, but for cost and simplicity too.

--Ethan

[kevin206]

For the practice rooms I've had, the biggest problems have been reflections. I've used egg crates, foam and carpet with good results at taming the reflection. Sometimes that created other problems, like big bass. Although that has been okay for practice purposes. Your ceiling height helps alot, I guess. I would still consider a few area rugs.

I once used a bedroom for my personal practice room and also for tracking drums and mixing. It was about 11'x13' with 8.5' ceilings, carpet on the floor and drywall for walls and ceiling. Terrible reflections! I did two things that made an unbelievable difference. The first was that I made two panels out of 1/4" pegboard about 12"x48". I covered them with thin foam and cloth and placed them at a slight angle at ceiling height. That in itself made a huge difference. Then, in one corner I took what is called a "deadman" used when installing a drywall ceiling and hung a moving blanket over it. I pushed that up into the corner and it tamed enough reflections to use the room. I also had some curtains hanging over the window behind the drums.

[willvis]

Maybe rigid fiberglass is the best, but I have had great luck with the 2'x2' panels I made of 2" wedge foam glued to 1/4" board. I can hang them from mic stands and make a portable vocal booth or gobos. I have hang them strategically on walls and ceilings to control reflection and echo. i think they work great in my small room. Best of all, I found this place, where you can get wedge foam, pyramid foam, eggcrate foam, and corner bass traps, etc for much less than Auralex:

http://www.foambymail.com/Wedge.html

Now I want some T'fusors and more foam panels

[Ethan Winer]

I found this place, where you can get wedge foam, pyramid foam, eggcrate foam, and corner bass traps, etc for much less than Auralex:

That company is a fraud. They claim the same performance as Auralex, but it's a lie. Proof in the test data below showing lab results for Auralex LENRDs and the cheap FBM knock-offs.

--Ethan



Source: http://www.realtraps.com/data.htm

[mrb]

I couldn't find fiberglass, but rockwool (Alpharock E 225, 70 kg/m3). I made 10 panels of 135 X 6 X 8 cm (53X 24 X 3.14 inches).
I think 703 is 45 kg/m3 and 705 100kg/m3, so mine are between those two.

My question is are they thick and dense enough to act as a basstraps (and should I put them in the corners) or are they are better as first/second reflection points in one of the parallel walls, and therefore I should build now my basstraps?

By the way, even if they are not still not properly hanged and spaced but, in combination with some thick curtains covering the door and one wall, they are making a difference. Sound is more defined now.

Thaks in advance

[Ethan Winer]

Those panels are just about the minimum thickness you can use for bass traps. If cost is not a problem, I'd double them up to be twice as thick. Otherwise, they'll still help a lot. They're definitely thick enough as is for reflection points.

--Ethan

[mrb]

Ethan,


Thanks again.

I've just made 4 basstraps (6.5 '' width) for the corners.

One more question if you don't mind. Where should I put the rest (6 panels)?

My idea is:

-2 behind the console, just behind the monitors.
-4 in one of the parallel walls (the one the amps are facing). The other parallel wall with no absortion panels, just a thick curtain. Is this a good idea or should I build 4 more and use a symmetric pattern (i.e two in front of two)?

[Ethan Winer]

Where should I put the rest (6 panels)?

A rectangle room has 12 corners, not just four:

* 4 where walls meet other walls
* 4 more where walls meet the ceiling
* 4 more where walls meet the floor

All of these locations are candidates for bass traps. Then once all 12 of those corners are treated, the next place is the rear wall, then the front wall.

--Ethan