I Just Got A 1/4" Tape Deck. Now What?

[Suntower]

Hi,

This may sound totally noob/stupid, but... I just got an old Sony TC-252 1/4" Reel To Reel. And I have no idea what to do with it. I mean... I've had -many- tape machines over the years... just not in the past 20 or so. I figured, if nothing else I could make little echo loops with it like when I was 16 or so... or make some nutty distortion with it.

Anyhoo... I have a couple of questions since it's been so long since I've worked with tape.
1. Where does one -buy- tape? I went to the usual super-store sites and it's nowhere to be found. I figured I'd type in '456' and there it'd be. What happened? How much does one expect to pay?

2. I used to mainly use Ampex 456 and something from BASF. I realise there are (were) many other brands and that they 'sound' different. And the funny thing is that of the many tape emu units I've heard the presets all sound -much- more different than I seem to remember from 'the old days'. Any suggestions?

3. Is it a totally stupid idea to consider using this thing as sort of a 'tape emulator'? I mean... for example, to run a parallel buss out to it and mix some of that grunge into a final pop/rock mix? IOW: Is that technique only useful for 'big boy' 2" tape @ 15IPS or can it be useful (not just a gaudy effect) with 1/4" tape @7.5IPS? Is there just not enough fidelity in such a machine to be considered for such a purpose? I guess I don't fully understand the physics of 2" vs. 1/4" well enough.

Just askin'

TIA,

---JC

[Teacher's Pet]

1.
http://www.tapes.com/

2.
The new tape is either RMG or ATR. People have reported mixed things about the RMG tape. I bought some and it was OK for me. I'm no expert.

3.
Not a stupid idea... This is the TapeOp forum, after all. Try it and tell us how it sounds.

Good luck and have fun

- Robin

[Suntower]

Next stupid question. I can't seem to find a bias adjuster on this deck. Should I go for the RMG 911 (456 clone?) or the 900... which appears to be able to take a hotter signal.

---JC

1.
http://www.tapes.com/

2.
The new tape is either RMG or ATR. People have reported mixed things about the RMG tape. I bought some and it was OK for me. I'm no expert.

3.
Not a stupid idea... This is the TapeOp forum, after all. Try it and tell us how it sounds.

Good luck and have fun

- Robin

[jnTracks]

did anybody say mixdown deck?

i have a broken 1/4" deck i want to mix down to (out of protools) if i ever get it fixed.

[ofajen]

Next stupid question. I can't seem to find a bias adjuster on this deck. Should I go for the RMG 911 (456 clone?) or the 900... which appears to be able to take a hotter signal.

That Sony is a fairly low-end unit: 1/4" 4-track stereo or mono at 7.5 ips or slower, and a two-head deck. You will do well if you can get it to bias and work well with SM911. The specs for playing time suggest that it is designed for 1 mil tape, not 1.5 mil tape, and I suspect it is not even designed to use the +6 (355 nWb/m) operating level that SM911 is capable of.

That is definitely not one that would benefit from using high-bias, high-output tape like SM900. That tape is thicker than the Sony was designed for, and requires more bias signal than the machine was designed for and the extra MOL will likely be a complete waste because if you actually can bias the tape, you will very likely totally overload and distort the record electronics before you get anywhere near the maximum levels that tape is capable of recording.

Cheers,

Otto

[Suntower]

OK, so what's the -bad- news?

How -does- one bias this thing? I don't see any way to adjust -anything- on it. You seem familiar with it. Is there a manual available somewhere?

Thanks!

---JC

Next stupid question. I can't seem to find a bias adjuster on this deck. Should I go for the RMG 911 (456 clone?) or the 900... which appears to be able to take a hotter signal.

That Sony is a fairly low-end unit: 1/4" 4-track stereo or mono at 7.5 ips or slower, and a two-head deck. You will do well if you can get it to bias and work well with SM911. The specs for playing time suggest that it is designed for 1 mil tape, not 1.5 mil tape, and I suspect it is not even designed to use the +6 (355 nWb/m) operating level that SM911 is capable of.

That is definitely not one that would benefit from using high-bias, high-output tape like SM900. That tape is thicker than the Sony was designed for, and requires more bias signal than the machine was designed for and the extra MOL will likely be a complete waste because if you actually can bias the tape, you will very likely totally overload and distort the record electronics before you get anywhere near the maximum levels that tape is capable of recording.

Cheers,

Otto

[ofajen]

OK, so what's the -bad- news?

How -does- one bias this thing? I don't see any way to adjust -anything- on it. You seem familiar with it. Is there a manual available somewhere?

There is a site www.hifiengine.com that has a lot of service manuals for old tape machines online. You just have to register and then you can download anything you want. I just looked in the manual to see what I could find out, and I also am familiar with some other machines, so I can kinda fill in a few of the blanks, too. I'd recommend that you download the manual and check it out.

Cheers,

Otto

[Suntower]

FANTASTIC SITE! Thanks.

Unfortunately, I've tried registering three times and can't seem to get a registration e-mail. What's the trick?

---JC

OK, so what's the -bad- news?

How -does- one bias this thing? I don't see any way to adjust -anything- on it. You seem familiar with it. Is there a manual available somewhere?

There is a site www.hifiengine.com that has a lot of service manuals for old tape machines online. You just have to register and then you can download anything you want. I just looked in the manual to see what I could find out, and I also am familiar with some other machines, so I can kinda fill in a few of the blanks, too. I'd recommend that you download the manual and check it out.

Cheers,

Otto

[@?,*???&?]

Hi,

This may sound totally noob/stupid, but... I just got an old Sony TC-252 1/4" Reel To Reel. And I have no idea what to do with it. I mean... I've had -many- tape machines over the years... just not in the past 20 or so. I figured, if nothing else I could make little echo loops with it like when I was 16 or so... or make some nutty distortion with it.

Anyhoo... I have a couple of questions since it's been so long since I've worked with tape.
1. Where does one -buy- tape? I went to the usual super-store sites and it's nowhere to be found. I figured I'd type in '456' and there it'd be. What happened? How much does one expect to pay?

2. I used to mainly use Ampex 456 and something from BASF. I realise there are (were) many other brands and that they 'sound' different. And the funny thing is that of the many tape emu units I've heard the presets all sound -much- more different than I seem to remember from 'the old days'. Any suggestions?

3. Is it a totally stupid idea to consider using this thing as sort of a 'tape emulator'? I mean... for example, to run a parallel buss out to it and mix some of that grunge into a final pop/rock mix? IOW: Is that technique only useful for 'big boy' 2" tape @ 15IPS or can it be useful (not just a gaudy effect) with 1/4" tape @7.5IPS? Is there just not enough fidelity in such a machine to be considered for such a purpose? I guess I don't fully understand the physics of 2" vs. 1/4" well enough.

Just askin'

TIA,

---JC

I had a TC-500 series Sony deck and it was complete crap. Really primitive transport that barely held the tape against the heads. Bad speed selection to at 7 1/2", 3 3/4", 1 7/8". Frequency response only went to 12 kHz.

I wouldn't worry about tape formulations at all with yours. Use ANY and get sounds.

Like you noticed, you can't calibrate it anyway.

[calaverasgrandes]

the last sony I had was crap for an open reel deck but awesome as an echo unit. Some of them had an echo feature, I think it was called sound on sound? It was kind of a slapback echo you get from routing a little bit of the playback head to the rec head. It will of course be limited to the time it takes for a 7.5 or 3.75 ips tap to move the 1 1/2" from rec to play heads. Sounded good on synths though!

[donny]

that type of deck may not sound super different from a good cassette deck. i would screw around with it to see if you can get some useful effects but its not a "mixdown" deck in the traditional sense. if you are transferring from a computer to "warm up" tracks, etc, it will likely degrade the audio rather than enhance it. which could be cool or not.

[braincellbattle]

I have a Sony TC-530 and I love it for the tape echo, but I use any old tape I can find at junk stores or whatever. I think it sounds a lot better than any cassette deck I own but I don't have anything really high end. I'm not sure if the model you have has the echo or sound on sound feature though.

I found mine in a big bulldozed pile of (literally) garbage. I usually run it on an aux for echo and sometimes just mess with it for weird distortion/flange/reverse/wind-up effects. fun times.

[calaverasgrandes]

yeah even the ugliest R2R I have ever seen (a Sears Silvertone...my first R2R) has decent electronics when compared to most tape decks. Now the tape path may be pretty rickety. Some I have seen are easily as bad as cassette tape when it comes to wow and flutter.

[@?,*???&?]

that type of deck may not sound super different from a good cassette deck. i would screw around with it to see if you can get some useful effects but its not a "mixdown" deck in the traditional sense. if you are transferring from a computer to "warm up" tracks, etc, it will likely degrade the audio rather than enhance it. which could be cool or not.

The Sony reel-to-reel I had was a lot worse than the Denon cassette deck I have. The Denon is a dual capstan unit.