Starting to get scary...

[James Oh]

Hey hey.

So I posted here earlier this year about moving to Chicago and, with any luck, finding a studio to get into as an assistant. The response was basically "go for it" and... I did.

Problem is it's been rough finding anything that pays the bills. I've been doing the occasional AV set-up job for a company I got in touch with but that's been about it. I recently reluctantly took a minimum-wage job at a sandwich shop while I keep looking.

I've still got a healthy amount of savings but it's starting to concern me. While my preference is to find a studio somewhere I've also been looking for radio or TV jobs (I've got three years in radio), more miscellaneous AV jobs and the like. I'd even go for something clerical and completely unrelated (I've got a good sense of organization and a high tolerance for monotonous paperwork) for a while as long as it made ends meet.

So any advice on how to make this work, where/how I should be looking, etc.? I've contacted just about every studio and radio station in the area with no real leads. A friend suggested trying to get into a manufacturing plant but truthfully without an electronics degree I don't know if I'd have a shot (if anyone wants to prove me wrong on this, by all means). I'm just kind of at a loss for what to do next.

I assume a lot of you folks have been here before, huh? How'd you pull out of it?

[Peterson Goodwyn]

This is a very looong term solution, but it seems to me like our best bets as freelancers is to build up as many streams as possible of passive income independent of our engineering work. Like you, I am not exactly just getting started, but I'm also not established yet to the point I can make a full time living recording bands. I've done the day job thing and god damn it's a frustrating leech on your time and mental space. Especially if your part time work is just trading time for hours--that is, if it is not creating assets that will keep on paying you. That time and energy you've put into serving coffee or formatting an Excel doc is simply gone, for the most part.

If you've got free time, think about putting it towards learning or creating something that will bring you income passively so you can spend your time doing music. There are so many possibilities out there that most people simply do not consider because to them earning money means one thing: getting a job... real estate, drop shipping (importing cheap stuff), creating viral content, writing books, creating websites and renting them to companies, building small pieces of software (plugins, apps, etc.), investing, blogging, etc.

Sorry this isn't really direct, short-term advice, but if you've got some savings you can float on for a bit, don't confine yourself to the world of wage labor when thinking about money.

[sound for sandwiches]

Having tech skills and a creative background, you'd probably fit in well at a college or University in tech support- The School of the Art Institute and Columbia College hire regularly, full and part time. but there are many other schools in the area too. It may not be engineering, but at least you're working with students and other people who are involved in music/film/theater/what have you, and connections lead to more work.

[CurtZHP]

Ever since I was in high school (1000 years ago), I wanted to work in audio. But I lost track of how many jobs I had before I found a full time opening in radio that eventually led to a full time job engineering in a production studio, which led to me becoming assistant engineer for a large market radio station.

Long before that, I worked as a cashier, upholsterer's apprentice, stock clerk, clerical runner.... You get the idea. Most of those jobs bored me senseless, but they paid the bills. Meanwhile I kept my eyes and ears open, and learned every chance I got.

Keep the faith, James. You'll get there.

[@?,*???&?]

Hey hey.

So I posted here earlier this year about moving to Chicago and, with any luck, finding a studio to get into as an assistant. The response was basically "go for it" and... I did.

Problem is it's been rough finding anything that pays the bills. I've been doing the occasional AV set-up job for a company I got in touch with but that's been about it. I recently reluctantly took a minimum-wage job at a sandwich shop while I keep looking.

I've still got a healthy amount of savings but it's starting to concern me. While my preference is to find a studio somewhere I've also been looking for radio or TV jobs (I've got three years in radio), more miscellaneous AV jobs and the like. I'd even go for something clerical and completely unrelated (I've got a good sense of organization and a high tolerance for monotonous paperwork) for a while as long as it made ends meet.

So any advice on how to make this work, where/how I should be looking, etc.? I've contacted just about every studio and radio station in the area with no real leads. A friend suggested trying to get into a manufacturing plant but truthfully without an electronics degree I don't know if I'd have a shot (if anyone wants to prove me wrong on this, by all means). I'm just kind of at a loss for what to do next.

I assume a lot of you folks have been here before, huh? How'd you pull out of it?

Yep. Welcome to the recording business in 2010.

Too many people working at home combined with too many people not wanting to spend any money combined with a Pandora *Cloud* accessibility to EVERY title ever released and you've just about got all the reasons why this is a less-than-profitable business.

15 years from now, if you're still doing this, you'll realize you simply have an 'entrepreneurial spirit' and could do nothing else. This industry takes nerves of steel if you're going to accept an irregular pay-check. It's not for everyone.

[kslight]

The above post is pretty accurate. I am similarly young (25) and took the get a degree in recording route and graduated when I was 20. Audio is not and never has been my main gig because I like to maintain a modest stable income, and any gig I have come across can not reliably promise that. I have however extensively refined my skills through freelancing and put a ton of money into equipment so I can work independently. This in my experience has added extreme value to me where I used to not get much work because the client had to book a studio now I have been booked SOLID in my evenings since June, with the prospect of a full time position in the near future.

So keep your head up, refine your skills as much as you can, possibly invest in a mobile setup, and keep trying.

Above anything this industry is about who you know and what you can do. Don't burn any bridges and keep your eyes open for opportunities.

[MoreSpaceEcho]

I'd even go for something clerical and completely unrelated (I've got a good sense of organization and a high tolerance for monotonous paperwork) for a while as long as it made ends meet.

call temp agencies and see what sort of office jobs they have. you can probably find something that isn't totally hateful, and while the pay won't be great, it'll be a whole lot better than minimum wage.

[casey campbell]

ok, i did something very similar but had a family of 4 (at the time) to support.

this is what i did:

1. A FOUR LEGGED STOOL IS A LOT MORE STABLE THAN A ONE LEGGED STOOL.

a. Don't put all of your eggs in one basket (income wise).
b. Pick 4 things you are good at that can make you money.
c. Work these 4 things at the same time. I did engineering, PA installs, mastering, and electronic repair....but the 4 doesn't matter really. The concept is that when one or two are going slow, you are working your other businesses...that way there is always income coming into your household. the 4 things you choose do not have to be audio related either. right now i am an IT tech at a corporation, but i also do mastering, engineering, PA installs, and computer tech work on the side.

2. Pound the pavement. Get out there and market yourself. dont' expect customers to come to you.

3. Everyone you meet is a potential client.

4. Do you have any of your own recording gear? If so, you could record recitals, do forensic audio (just meet every attorney in your town and offer your services), go see bands live and offer to record them. if you don't have your own space to record a full band, call yourself an on-location recording service.

5. in this business, it's not only about who you know, but that's pretty important. most of my gigs came about from word of mouth, or session players who i recorded telling their friends, etc....but if you don't have the skills, you won't make it... the final product has to be slammin'. if you can't get there, then take up a regular job and intern, read, practice, until you can.

6. a HUGE untapped market is black gospel. if you have the skills engineering wise, you can do pretty good in that genre. charge a deposit up front to fill in any gear gaps you need because more than likely, they will request live recording. there is also a very large need for live engineers in that genre as well. another untapped market is the singer-songwriter market as well. approach high schools about recording their symphonic bands...

7. look professional = is professional

8. challenge yourself: how many people have YOU approached about recording in the last week? do you have business cards (you can get them free on the internet), etc etc etc...set goals, or you won't get there.

[joninc]

lots of good thoughts here - i agree it's a tough business and 8 years in to it "full time" i still hit dead times - like right now.

my experience is that it's feast or famine.

in the spring/summer i literally could not accomodate all the projects wanting to record. now i feel like i couldn't give away studio time.

you gotta be versatile! in addition to producing and engineering - i play (session work), write (royalties), play live (extra cash) and do a little web and print design once in a blue moon. i have also started doing mastering (not my idea - friends just keep asking me to do it!) ...

and right now - that's still not really enough. we are scraping by (married with 2 kids - wife homeschools and doesn't get paid but that seems to be the nature of the business.

i am curious about this last poster's point:

2. Pound the pavement. Get out there and market yourself. dont' expect customers to come to you.

what does this actually look like? i find that it's really mostly a word of mouth business. it's important to go out and be at shows and play to meet people and stuff BUT i can never corner someone and convince them to record with me. they'd have to have heard about me or some of my work to want to do stuff with me.

my suggestion is find a job you can tolerate and start recording every friend and aquaintance you can in your time off for whatever they can afford to pay. build up a body of work and start to charge and raise rates incrementally as your experience/services grow. your name and work begins to circulate and people tell their friend about you etc... in a few years you might be doing enough to quit your day job or go to part time.

even having a mon-tues job is sort of ideal. most sessions seem to happen around weekends for me more than early weekday stuff.

good luck!

[TheRealRoach]

You need to go out on your own and start your own business.

I think the key to building a successful career is through marketing yourself as a music production specialist, rather than as recording engineer.

The creative stuff between your ears is what will build you a career. The gear and the stuff in the racks is completely inconsequential since the prices of pretty good microphones is REALLY low, and since anyone with a computer is an engineer.

Edit: I just found your original post from March. Questions: Do you play any instruments well? Do you write music? Can you read music? Do you have any music theory training? Have you ever recorded any other bands/artists on your own apart from school or as part of another studios project?

[James Oh]

Thanks. Lots of really good ideas out there that I'll definitely be looking into.

I just got a response from one studio telling me I should send them a resume so I'm preparing to fire that off right now. It's far from a sure thing, of course, but it's the most encouraging thing I've gotten lately.

If you've got free time, think about putting it towards learning or creating something that will bring you income passively so you can spend your time doing music. There are so many possibilities out there that most people simply do not consider because to them earning money means one thing: getting a job... real estate, drop shipping (importing cheap stuff), creating viral content, writing books, creating websites and renting them to companies, building small pieces of software (plugins, apps, etc.), investing, blogging, etc.

I'm a bit of a writer and have thought about the blogging thing. Been trying to think of an angle, though.

Having tech skills and a creative background, you'd probably fit in well at a college or University in tech support- The School of the Art Institute and Columbia College hire regularly, full and part time. but there are many other schools in the area too. It may not be engineering, but at least you're working with students and other people who are involved in music/film/theater/what have you, and connections lead to more work.

This is another idea I'd been circling. The other day I started gathering info on some local studios/venues. Unless I get something very encouraging very quickly from this studio my next step is harassing theaters.

ok, i did something very similar but had a family of 4 (at the time) to support.

this is what i did:

Great outline. I'm going to keep coming back to this.

4. Do you have any of your own recording gear? If so, you could record recitals, do forensic audio (just meet every attorney in your town and offer your services), go see bands live and offer to record them. if you don't have your own space to record a full band, call yourself an on-location recording service.

Yes, I have my own gear but it's not too mobile. I have a laptop with Pro Tools but the machine is falling apart and I'd be a little scared to use it with people's money on the line. I'd be willing to invest in a new one if a few odd jobs could pay for it.

My main setup (Pro Tools 8, nice monitors, etc.) is on my desktop, so I'd be in a good position to, say, mix/clean up tracks or even do simple jobs like converting people's albums to MP3s (which, amazingly, is still something it seems a lot of people can't do for themselves).

You need to go out on your own and start your own business.

I would definitely be up for this (preferably with a couple friends I haven't made yet) but I feel like I'm not ready for it at this point. I don't think I know a lot of the specifics that I would have to be on top of. But if I could get in somewhere and learn the ropes (even if it means doing odd jobs on the side in the meanwhile) I would absolutely be willing to start my own business.

Do you play any instruments well? Do you write music? Can you read music? Do you have any music theory training? Have you ever recorded any other bands/artists on your own apart from school or as part of another studios project?

I play a lot but I wouldn't say I'm particularly great at anything. I could probably hold my own as a rhythm guitarist in a lot of contexts. I write music and know basic theory but, you know, I shouldn't be teaching classes or anything.

I've been recording myself for the last nine years. From time to time something else will pop up. I have a friend who fronts a fairly successful bluegrass band (well, as successful as any bluegrass band is gonna be in 2010) and he would record some of his solo country demos with me for publishing purposes. Odds and ends like that.

Again, thanks everybody. A ton of great ideas in here that've made me feel quite a bit better about things. I don't mind struggling, but I'd like to feel like I'm struggling TOWARDS something.

[TheRealRoach]

[...]But if I could get in somewhere and learn the ropes (even if it means doing odd jobs on the side in the meanwhile) I would absolutely be willing to start my own business.

What "ropes" do you think you will learn from being in a studio that you don't already know? (This is actually a direct question, not intended to be rhetorical)

I get the impression from you that this is some big fancy elitist club that is really hard to get into. It's not. It's about helping people record their good music. Repeat that like a mantra.

Go out and find good music and get to it already. Bands and artists love nothing more than a guy who wanders out of nowhere and says, "Hey, I just heard you guys playing and I really dig it. Next time you're thinking of doing something give me a shout; I would love to be a part of it." Give each one of those people a card, let it simmer for a few months, and your phone will start to ring.

[James Oh]

[...]But if I could get in somewhere and learn the ropes (even if it means doing odd jobs on the side in the meanwhile) I would absolutely be willing to start my own business.

What "ropes" do you think you will learn from being in a studio that you don't already know? (This is actually a direct question, not intended to be rhetorical)

I get the impression from you that this is some big fancy elitist club that is really hard to get into. It's not. It's about helping people record their good music. Repeat that like a mantra.

Go out and find good music and get to it already. Bands and artists love nothing more than a guy who wanders out of nowhere and says, "Hey, I just heard you guys playing and I really dig it. Next time you're thinking of doing something give me a shout; I would love to be a part of it." Give each one of those people a card, let it simmer for a few months, and your phone will start to ring.

Good advice. And yeah, I do have sorta this feeling like it's impossible to break into. I guess it's some weird self-esteem issue I'm powering through.

As for as "ropes" go, it's a lot of the minutia. I don't have an encyclopedic knowledge of equipment and, aside from basic soldering, I don't know much about repairing gear. Stuff like that. I realize you don't NEED to have those abilities to do this work but I've always been a planner. I always felt like I needed to have all my bases covered and be ready for every eventuality. Obviously that's impossible. It's something I've got to get over.

[fossiltooth]

Yep. Welcome to the recording business in 2010.

Too many people working at home combined with too many people not wanting to spend any money combined with a Pandora *Cloud* accessibility to EVERY title ever released and you've just about got all the reasons why this is a less-than-profitable business.

15 years from now, if you're still doing this, you'll realize you simply have an 'entrepreneurial spirit' and could do nothing else. This industry takes nerves of steel if you're going to accept an irregular pay-check. It's not for everyone.

Jeff, I respectfully and wholeheartedly disagree with this statement. This is a great time to work in audio. It's just not a great time to make a living working with crumbling national enterprises, or by running just-another prosumer studio.

There's a new economy out there. People who do something different, or actively serve to the two most reliable current markets (niche-focused, profitable independents and passionate amateurs) can make a living.

For everyone else: this is the first time in generations that inspired musicians don't need to be struck by lightning and backed by a faceless monolith or wealthy family to have a shot at sharing their unique gifts and perspective: Do that. There are tons of other avenues where money can be the main concern.

The guard is changing. Awesome. There's a lot of current writing on the subject: Tribes, The Long Tail and Linchpin are some insightful pop titles that are a decent place to start.

We all get stuck in outmoded mindsets sometimes. The page has been updated. Maybe it's time to hit refresh?

Also: Curt's statements above were invaluable. Smart stuff.

[@?,*???&?]

Yep. Welcome to the recording business in 2010.

Too many people working at home combined with too many people not wanting to spend any money combined with a Pandora *Cloud* accessibility to EVERY title ever released and you've just about got all the reasons why this is a less-than-profitable business.

15 years from now, if you're still doing this, you'll realize you simply have an 'entrepreneurial spirit' and could do nothing else. This industry takes nerves of steel if you're going to accept an irregular pay-check. It's not for everyone.

Jeff, I respectfully and wholeheartedly disagree with this statement. This is a great time to work in audio. It's just not a great time to make a living working with crumbling national enterprises, or by running just-another prosumer studio.

There's a new economy out there. People who do something different, or actively serve to the two most reliable current markets (niche-focused, profitable independents and passionate amateurs) can make a living.

For everyone else: this is the first time in generations that inspired musicians don't need to be struck by lightning and backed by a faceless monolith or wealthy family to have a shot at sharing their unique gifts and perspective: Do that. There are tons of other avenues where money can be the main concern.

The guard is changing. Awesome. There's a lot of current writing on the subject: Tribes, The Long Tail and Linchpin are some insightful pop titles that are a decent place to start.

We all get stuck in outmoded mindsets sometimes. The page has been updated. Maybe it's time to hit refresh?

Also: Curt's statements above were invaluable. Smart stuff.

And yet I see studio shuttering their doors regularly. Long standing studios with great names. Perhaps there's a new $15/hour studio niche that I'm not aware of...wait, I know about that studio, it's some kids basement!

Kidding aside, I don't think you have a grip on the real economics at work here. Pandora.com is not going anywhere, nor is a musician's creative urge in a 2 to 3 year window in their late teens or early 20's. From a local, not 'national' standpoint, I suppose you'd resign yourself to the fact that you'll get a big turnover of clients in that age-range who don't know the difference.

That's not me.

btw, the long tail is real and it's EXACTLY why the income is declining. So if a local band is gonna sell 100 albums locally, they ARE NOT going to spend $3K in your studio to make a recording. In addition, Soundscan shows 97,300 albums (with barcode) were released last year. At a local level, I'd say it's 8 times that (non-barcode). Makes every really, really, really cheap. That's called supply and demand.