Do I owe this guy an apology?

[Tragabigzanda]

Hey all. I generally would never post anything about a personal conflict on the internet, but this one has got me stymied. Forgive the intentional vagueness...

There's a studio I've done a few sessions out of. It's a unique situation in that the studio owner is not really an engineer, and isn't too educated on the trade; he keeps two assistant engineers on staff, with no head engineer on staff (yes, you read that right). Some of the work that comes in has an outside engineer, and other jobs have such a tight budget that they can't afford more than one of his assistants (who make peanuts). Then, occasionally, there is a client without an engineer, but they have a little more to spend, and that's when the studio owner calls me: I am basically freelancing, often for a VERY low rate, and he is connecting me with the work and providing me with an assistant.

Of the roughly twenty sessions I've done in this way, about four of them are with this assistant "John." He's been there a little less than a year, is quite handy with PT and the console, but also has (IMO) some room to grow: his mic'ing technique is spotty, his mixes are pretty one dimensional, and his people skills are pretty poor. He's generally not rude, but just not especially warm, sort of detached (most likely burned out on working for $8/hr on a lot of sessions that are not super exciting).

We had a marathon session yesterday: musical theater demo recording (looking for Broadway funding), with 7 songs featuring 11 vocalists, drums, bass, guitars, keys, simple percussion, conductor. They wanted everything tracked, mixed, and faux-mastered in one day! We were there from noon-3am, and we got it done, and the client was totally happy.

It's 4am, we're cleaning up, and "John" says I should pay him (out of my own pocket) because he "bailed me out with Pro Tools." I'm probably the last engineer to learn the software, and I'm doing ok with it, though there is certainly room for improvement... I learned on 2" and Radar, and some of the trickier editing moves in PT just take me a bit longer; I'm still trying to get all those quick keys down! Anyway, I op'd PT for the entire session, though there were maybe four times when I called John in (from surfing the internet in the lounge) to take over on some more complex edits, in the interest of saving time. Beyond that, his work was fairly minimal: he helped with mic setup, did the entire mic breakdown by himself (while I was mixing), and reminded me a couple of times about some weird things with the patch bay.

My initial reaction was really restrained, like, "Uh, if you feel like you're not making what you're worth, that's between you and the owner." He pushed the issue, saying that I'd be lost without him, and that he didn't want to work with me in the future, unless the pay was 50/50. I sort of blew up on the guy (as much as possible after a 16 hour session), saying that there's a lot more to engineering than just PT edits: I had spoken with the client the night before and had come in with a gameplan for the day, I played host to about 20 different people throughout the day, and I generally kept this huge session moving in a positive, focused direction. I then told him that he had a shitty attitude, and I'd be happy to not work with him again...

Anyway, it's been bumming me out all day, I just can't let it go. Sorry for rambling, but I'd love to hear any feedback. Am I an a**hole? Am I expected to know every PT editing move at the drop of a dime? Was he way out of line? Ugh, I hate when we can't all just get along...

[Knights Who Say Neve]

He has a shitty attitude, and you'll be happier not to work with him again.

[teleharmonium]

It's hard to know if an apology is warranted without having exact words; if you used some harsh language in the process, then maybe an apology might be right for the choice of words (only).

But, based on the story as written, you are correct to have refused. The time for negotiating rates and job descriptions is before the work begins, not after it's done. If you have had no direct business dealings with this guy before, he had no reason to expect that would change.

I would complain about it to the owner (unless you think he might side with the AE); it's bad enough working long hours for low pay without getting hit up for a kickback by somebody else in basically the same situation as you.

[JGriffin]

I'd suggest that one response could have been, "dude, you know what, it's 4 in the morning. Let's talk about this with the owner tomorrow."

But don't take that to mean I think you did anything wrong. From your description the guy was out of line.

[Tragabigzanda]

Yea, I wish I had kept my cool enough to say, "It's 4am, let's talk about it tomorrow." I think I owe him an apology on that note, so thanks for pointing that out.

The time for negotiating rates and job descriptions is before the work begins, not after it's done. If you have had no direct business dealings with this guy before, he had no reason to expect that would change.

This is really the crux of the matter. There's generally poor communication at the studio. Session info (client, expectation, rates) is often figured out on-the-fly, and my dynamic with the place isn't such that I can circumnavigate that reality; I've tried to glean more details prior to accepting a gig, with no success. I just have to take it or leave it, and hope for the best.

Off topic and more importantly, where the hell is Porkopolis, and how soon can I get there?

[MoreSpaceEcho]

i agree with what dwulby said, but yeah, it's hard to keep your cool in situations like that, so i can't blame you for losing it somewhat with the guy, i'm sure i would've too.

i think he was out of line, seems to me running PT would be part of the assistant's job, and if you only called him in a couple times for help, i mean, come on...

[0-it-hz]

In what perverted fucked up universe is an ASSISTANT negotiating money AFTER the gig is done?

Yeah bro... I really held down the 2 & 4 at that wedding gig you hired me for so I demand half of what the client paid the band. Or else!

Or else what?

[Gentleman Jim]

Putting on my "Assume a bunch of stuff I just pulled out of my ass is true" hat, I'd venture a guess that he's a little bit resentful that he trudges through all the smaller gigs for $8/hr, but when there's someone who comes in with any kind of a budget he can't make any extra cash because you get the call. I'm suspecting that he thinks he's ready to sit in your chair, and that you couldn't sit in his.

I don't personally subscribe to the theory that anyone who makes more money should have to have passed through all "lower" skill sets and pay grades in order to get there, but I know some people who do.

[Tragabigzanda]

I'd venture a guess that he's a little bit resentful that he trudges through all the smaller gigs for $8/hr, but when there's someone who comes in with any kind of a budget he can't make any extra cash because you get the call. I'm suspecting that he thinks he's ready to sit in your chair, and that you couldn't sit in his.

Shoot, thanks for pointing that out. I can see it's true, and I empathize with the guy.

The minimal success I've had as an engineer is because I get along well with people! I think that just about anybody can push buttons and turn knobs until stuff sounds good, and these days it's so easy to pop online and find the answer to a technical question that might be stumping me. I've paid my own dues already, and I've still got a lot more to pay; the world of sound and technology is never ending, and there's always gonna be someone who can get some sound that I wouldn't get. I just think that ego in the studio doesn't really serve anybody. I love when an assistant hears something on a mix that didn't jump out at me, and I say, "Yea, totally! Good call!" But to fight for credit and compensation after the fact is not only unprofessional, it's downright competitive.

I'd like to patch things up with the guy, if possible, so this is helpful for me to get my thoughts straight...

[Anthony Caruso]

On owing an apology, it depends on your relationship with him and how far over- or under-the-top you went. Do you think he's an OK kid and has potential but is misguided? Maybe apologize, but definitely don't back down from the point you made. He was out of line... shady and underhanded, even.

If he had not been in the lounge surfing the web, maybe he would have learned something from working WITH you and seen the day in balance -- he got show off some chops, you taught him how to keep a huge session rolling, mic technique etc.

I mean, that's the whole progress of assisting: be present, work hard, learn, one day you get a chance to show of some fancy chop-chop. Engineer says, "Hey this guy knows what he's doing AND he smells good!". Engineer keeps requesting said assistant. Engineer can leave trusted assistant to chop-chop while engineer places mics. Assistant observes how engineer places mics. Both are happy for a time. Engineer has personal trouble, probably centered around money and a feeling of doubt when accounting the pinnacle points of his life thus far. He starts robbing banks on the side, not just for the money but because it makes him feel alive. One day in the middle of a hurdy-gurdy performance at union triple scale, FBI shows up at the studio and throws engineer in the party wagon. Assuming the assistant has been attentive to the session, has observed the dynamic of the room, understands the goal at hand and how to achieve it -- well, let's just say the session won't be held up for long.

[chris harris]

No.

[kslight]

Eh...no.

[JohnDavisNYC]

i'd talk to the owner and tell him to fire the assistant.

he owes you an apology.

john

[Nick Sevilla]

No.

[Waltz Mastering]

Buy him a sandwich and a beer... and then brush up on your PT chops. 2 cents