Internal 2-track Bounce in PTLE

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suppositron
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Post by suppositron » Thu Nov 18, 2010 9:55 am

Nick Sevilla wrote:
oldguitars wrote:why not bounce to disk the normal way? I create folder in my project folder and call it "mixes" and then i always bounce all work and final mixes to that folder...
Because it does not sound the same (admitted by the Avid people years ago, and still not fixed)
That's still kind of a weird concept to me. I just finished reading Perfecting Sound Forever and the author claims someone from digidesign came up with an algorithm and they were able to examine the bits that went into the mix engine and the mix that came out and said everything was mathematically right on. Although I suppose "mix engine" could be different than "bouncing".
MoreSpaceEcho wrote:c'mon. everyone knows that roland really starts to sing when you push the master up.

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Post by Nick Sevilla » Thu Nov 18, 2010 10:00 am

suppositron wrote:
Nick Sevilla wrote:
oldguitars wrote:why not bounce to disk the normal way? I create folder in my project folder and call it "mixes" and then i always bounce all work and final mixes to that folder...
Because it does not sound the same (admitted by the Avid people years ago, and still not fixed)
That's still kind of a weird concept to me. I just finished reading Perfecting Sound Forever and the author claims someone from digidesign came up with an algorithm and they were able to examine the bits that went into the mix engine and the mix that came out and said everything was mathematically right on. Although I suppose "mix engine" could be different than "bouncing".
Yeah.. but mathematically is not the same as using one's own ears.

You could always do a null test... (drumroll please...)
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Post by Al_Huero » Thu Nov 18, 2010 10:18 am

Bro Shark wrote:I monitor from the "OUTS" stereo Aux track described in my post above. On that track I set up a stereo bus send to the "MIX" stereo audio track, which I keep record-enabled and on Mute.
Makes sense; so if I understand correctly--in the way I have my session set up (with a stereo aux "master" or "outs" track and a stereo audio "mix print" track); I could send the output from the master track to the mix print track using a send rather than bus output; thereby allowing the output from my master track to stay at analog 1/2.

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Post by Bro Shark » Thu Nov 18, 2010 10:50 am

Yes. Bingo.

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Post by ott0bot » Thu Nov 18, 2010 10:56 am

Al_Huero wrote: Could that be a low-latency monitoring issue as well (e.g., I don't get any audio output through the stereo audio track if it's simply record-enabled)?
It's not low-latency monitoring doing that, that option is called "Input Only Monitoring" and it's under the track menu i think. Select that, then you can hear the input when record enabled, and not actually recording. You are probably in "auto input," which I think is more useful genrally, so you can hear the playback and the recorded track input. Personally.... I just record in "auto input" mode, experiment with settings, then find what works and set levels, then command z, then the audio is gone, like a turkey in the corn...and you can record your new audio with levels set to where you want. You can also see how the wave form looks, which i know is taboo, right, but I like to see it anyway.

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Post by Al_Huero » Thu Nov 18, 2010 11:00 am

Very good, thanks!

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Post by jziggy314 » Thu Nov 18, 2010 12:14 pm

Bounce to disk does null but I've always felt like the stereo field narrows and gets mushy when bouncing to disk. MHO
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Post by ott0bot » Thu Nov 18, 2010 1:12 pm

yep....it's good for quick refecence, but it' just don't sound right to my ears.

Also, using an aux bus to record a bounce gives you much more freedom as far as using plug-in's, sending to an external comp, and checking to be sure your levels are where you need then for mastering.

Plus you have to listen to the bounce anyway....may as well see so digital or analog meters bounce around while you wait!

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Post by Jitters » Thu Nov 18, 2010 9:37 pm

Can something sound different from something else and still null? I didn't think that was possible.

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Post by Aquaman » Fri Nov 19, 2010 8:54 am

Yeah, I'm going to need a citation for the "bounces sound different" claim. AFAIK this has been proven to be nothing more than confirmation bias and/or shenanigans.

Just bounce it.

Although mix bus recording can be useful if you want to make a quick move on the fly, etc.

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Post by ott0bot » Fri Nov 19, 2010 9:17 am

Aquaman wrote:Yeah, I'm going to need a citation for the "bounces sound different" claim. AFAIK this has been proven to be nothing more than confirmation bias and/or shenanigans.

Just bounce it.

Although mix bus recording can be useful if you want to make a quick move on the fly, etc.
I have a song I can try this out on....and I'll post the results without identifying them....that is...when I get a chance. :)
It's not a huge difference, but it seems to me that bounce to disc does something wacky to certain plug-ins. Thats my main issue.

seriously though...the main difference is that you can slap on a bus comp, eq, or tape saturation, and as you said..make adjustments if needed. That all effects the sound more than how you bounce it.

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Post by suppositron » Fri Nov 19, 2010 9:51 am

Nick Sevilla wrote:
suppositron wrote:
Nick Sevilla wrote:
oldguitars wrote:why not bounce to disk the normal way? I create folder in my project folder and call it "mixes" and then i always bounce all work and final mixes to that folder...
Because it does not sound the same (admitted by the Avid people years ago, and still not fixed)
That's still kind of a weird concept to me. I just finished reading Perfecting Sound Forever and the author claims someone from digidesign came up with an algorithm and they were able to examine the bits that went into the mix engine and the mix that came out and said everything was mathematically right on. Although I suppose "mix engine" could be different than "bouncing".
Yeah.. but mathematically is not the same as using one's own ears.

You could always do a null test... (drumroll please...)
You're right. It must be magic!
MoreSpaceEcho wrote:c'mon. everyone knows that roland really starts to sing when you push the master up.

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Post by Jitters » Tue Nov 30, 2010 7:25 am

jziggy314 wrote:Bounce to disk does null but I've always felt like the stereo field narrows and gets mushy when bouncing to disk. MHO
ott0bot wrote: It's not a huge difference, but it seems to me that bounce to disc does something wacky to certain plug-ins. Thats my main issue.

Yes and yes and wow. :shock:

Thanks guys! My records just got a little better. Tape OP FTW!

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