Attn. Drummers - 1964 Ludwig Restoration (need advice)

[sir hills]

So as the title states I'm starting a restoration project on three 1964 Ludwig 3 ply with re-ring mahogany shells (keystone badges but no parts/hardware) in 14x22, 9x13 & 14x16...couldn't believe I found a 64 kit with a 14x16 floor! Edges are good, black diamond pearl wrap is a little faded on the kick & snare but other-wise in good shape. By way of multiple collectors & shops I've collected all the Lg. Classic lugs (+6 or 8 extra), floor tom legs/mounts & bass drum spurs/mounts.

I've owned vintage drums in the past & found ways to deal with issues but this is my first "shell up" restoration. I'm not so much concerned with getting period correct vintage parts (though so far I pretty much have) but I'm most interested in having a solid player's kit that stays put, tunes well, holds that tuning & does not rattle.

First question (second guessing myself) - I've started packing the lugs with thick felt & am wondering if I'm approaching it right or if I'm going to find rattles after a couple months of playing. What I'm doing is cutting a small piece of the felt so that it cradles the spring inside the lug (like a hotdog in a bun, covering only the back & sides of the spring where it might come in contact with the inside of the lug casing)...my theory in doing it this way is that I don't want the felt coming in contact with the shell & dampening resonance. Is this right to assume? Or, should I just completely wrap the spring in felt? Here's a link to some pics of what I've done:
http://picasaweb.google.com/williamdyar ... estoration#

Second - I'm getting ready to order new 2.3mm triple-flanged rims & new tension rods for the 2 toms. Have any of you had experience with locking rods? Are they worth the extra $?

Thanks in advance to anyone that has info or tips. I'll keep you guys posted here & link to pics as I go, maybe it'll come in handy for someone here down the road...

[evan]

I've personally never had any problems with springs in the lugs rattling, unless they've come out completely and need to be reseated. Mostly I find it's internal tom dampers, loose tom mount bolts, bass drum leg mounts, etc. that make noise. The felt you added should be fine.

I haven't used locking rods but I don't see why they shouldn't work -- the ones I've seen use nylon threading like you see on plumbing or bicycle hardware. I assume over time they'll wear out, though.

Congrats on the Ludwig and 14" tom. I've been pretty happy with my 60's Pearl, but someday I'd like a good American set...

[Gregg Juke]

Hey man, looks great. Excellent idea. For the reasons you mentioned, I wouldn't do a 360 wrap.

Not sure about the locking rods, but a couple of ideas:

* You might want to add a _dab_ of vaseline or grease to each lug before screwing back into the lug casing (preventative measure)

* To keep drums (especially snare) in-tune, you might want to check-out LT Lug-Locks (they have several products, but you'd be looking for the "Lug-Locks"). I've had them on my snare for a _long_ time; no tuning problems, and live and studio engineers love the sound (I haven't changed the tuning on that "go-to" Pearl drum for, ah, years). http://www.luglock.com/luglock.htm

* Get that hair out of there.

GJ

[oldguitars]

I have restored TONS of drums. Your felt approach should be fine, I would just go ahead and wrap the spring in felt. It touching the shell really won't make a difference and you would hate to find that it didn't work well enough. The vaseline tip is a good one. Have fun!!

[sir hills]

Thanks fellas!

Nice to have a little reassurance & the tips are quite welcomed. I've always done a drop or two of 3 in 1 oil in all the lugs once or twice a year when changing heads/cleaning...vaseline is a good one though.

Gregg - I was wondering if anyone would catch the hair! ewww. Perhaps I'll go ahead & pack all the lugs with hair?

[cgarges]

I pack all the lugs on my vintage drums with cotton. I'm more concerned with keeping all of them from turning into 12-16 tiny little spring reverbs per drum than dampening the shell with cotton inside the little metal boxes that HAVE to be attached to the drums anyway. Seems to work just fine for me and I never have problems with anything rattling. I do take all the internal muffling stuff and anything that's not directly realted to mounting or tuning the drums off of or out of the shell.

I bought a set of the Rhythm Tech lugs that kind of sit in place for a bottom floor tom head that I wanted to keep extremely loose YEARS ago and they seemed to work okay. I don't know that I'd go with those all the way around the drumkit, though. Seems like it'd be overkill. One thing that might help is to put a nylon washer underneath the metal washer between the lug screw and hoop. Aside from making tuning feel better, I do think that this helps keep the tuning a little more stable for some reason. I just did this with a bunch of my drums that didn't have the nylon washers and I do notice a difference in tuning stability.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[Gregg Juke]

>>>>Aside from making tuning feel better, I do think that this helps keep the tuning a little more stable for some reason. I just did this with a bunch of my drums that didn't have the nylon washers and I do notice a difference in tuning stability.<<<<

That's a great idea Chris. Conga players add extra washers all the time, but I never thought about snare drum, or plastic.

GJ

[sir hills]

Thanks Chris, thought you might chime in. I may try out the cotton idea. Some folks claim it gets messy & difficult to remove from the springs over time...but it seems an evenly divided preference.

The kit didn't come with any parts at all so I wasn't planning on purchasing/installing internal mufflers, I've always removed those from any drum I've owned with the exception of a 60's Sonor nickle-plated brass snare it works well on/in & has never had rattle problems.

After reading your contribution on drum tips in the latest Tape Op I checked out the nylon washers! Guess I'll probably end up going with basic rods/washers & the nylon or ABS washers. Simple, effective & replacing the nylon/ABS is easy enough.

Excellent! When in doubt ask the TOMB. Thanks for all the tips/ideas folks. I'll post some progress pics this weekend/next week.

[sir hills]

Just got a great reply/tip from the Drumforum board:

"* Also; While you have all the lugs off, make sure that the threads on all the tension rod inserts are good. Now's the time to swap out a boogered one while you have easy access to them. Same for lug mounting screws."

I hadn't thought of this...yes, I'm a little slow. It's simple common sense things like this that are easily overlooked & learned "the hard way".

[cgarges]

If you use both a metal AND a nylon/ABS washer, that will probably seem to be the right thing. If you tension your drums pretty tight, the nylon washers might crack and they will kind of flatten out over time, but they're not THAT expensive and I think it's worth it to have them on there, even if you have to replace them once every two years or something.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[Jarvis]

Has no one tried replacing the lug springs with flexible vinyl tubing ala aquarium style pump tubing. I believe I heard of this in an old issue of Modern Drummer. Did this to my Rogers swiv o matic era kit twenty years ago and not a rattle since.
jarvis

[Gregg Juke]

>>>>Has no one tried replacing the lug springs with flexible vinyl tubing ala aquarium style pump tubing. I believe I heard of this in an old issue of Modern Drummer. Did this to my Rogers swiv o matic era kit twenty years ago and not a rattle since.<<<<

Wow, I never would have believed that that would work, if you hadn't tried it already Jarvis.

I did hear some friends make the coolest "pitch adjustable mini-timp" with a 16" floor tom and some aquarium tubing inserted into the vent hole. The other end goes in your mouth. Blow to vary pressure while playing-- crazy.

Not a restoration tip, but pretty cool nonetheless.

GJ

[cgarges]

I did hear some friends make the coolest "pitch adjustable mini-timp" with a 16" floor tom and some aquarium tubing inserted into the vent hole. The other end goes in your mouth. Blow to vary pressure while playing-- crazy.

I've seen several people do this before. It is pretty cool, if not a bit gimmicky.

Wow, I never would have believed that that would work, if you hadn't tried it already Jarvis.

Me, neither. Seems like if it works, it'd be a cool idea. I'd just wonder low long it would last before the tubing wears out. Twenty years is really impressive. Never would have guessed that.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[Jarvis]

Not so much wear out as maybe dry out, but in the 24 years since I did it, I've never had a reason to open up a lug casing on any of the six drums I did it to. There haven't been any rattles. I'm sure I've changed heads a few dozen times and I haven't lost a lug nut into the lug casing so they're still doing their job. Played those babies tonight, man I love those tubs.

[sir hills]

Just wanted to post an update that the restoration is coming along great! Below is a link to the DFO thread with pics/descriptions. Some of the folks over there have chimed in offering great advice & reassurance.

http://www.drumforum.org/index.php?/top ... g-project/