remember blog about 10,000 downloads equalling no buyers?

[BrontoSoreAss]

I'm not sure how cd's are bulky but vinyl isn't.

cds are a bulkier format of digital media than the other options available - a giant stack of cds vs. your hard drive or an ipod/mp3 player. Thus I was claiming that I believe that they are becoming obsolete in light of these other options.

A different articulation of the claim I was making is that the vinyl format offers something distinctly different from digital files where its actual physical presence is desirable.

Also to address another point brought up its really not that hard to find high quality downloads if you look in the right places. For instance closed tracker communities often have rules governing the quality of audio files hosted. Cunning digital pirates.

[dynomike]

I'm not sure how cd's are bulky but vinyl isn't.

Also to address another point brought up its really not that hard to find high quality downloads if you look in the right places. For instance closed tracker communities often have rules governing the quality of audio files hosted. Cunning digital pirates.

In summation, http://what.cd

[EasyGo]

As far as I'm concerned cds are making less and less sense - they are a bulky, over priced and are becoming increasingly more obsolete. I find it hard to find value in something I can replicate in 10 minutes with utorrent, nero, and a spool of shiny frisbees from the office supply store.

I find this notion that CDs are somehow overpriced laughable. When CDs showed up in stores from 83-85, they were priced at $17.99 or $18.99, at a time when cassettes (remember those?) and LPs cost $8.99. When I managed a record store in 1992-94, CD list prices had come down to $14.99 and $15.99; cassettes and LPs were still $8.99 or so. By this time, most listeners had switched over to CDs, and people actually bought CDs, sometimes stacks of em in a single visit to a record store. People actually bought used CDs for as much as $8.99-9.99, and we were thrilled. We loved CDs because every time we played them they sounded just as good, which was a huge advance over LPs and cassettes.

Now CDs might come out with a high list price, but they are routinely discounted to $9.99-$11.99 in a desperate attempt to sell them to the few buyers left. This is in 2010 dollars vs. $17.99 in 1985 dollars vs. $14.99 in 1994 dollars. Obviously there has been price inflation over the last 16-25 years, so I think it's safe to say that the price of CDs has decreased considerably over time.

When Napster came around in 99 or so, tech savvy people of all ages started grabbing all the free music they could download, and an attitude of 'paying for music is for suckers' evolved. This has obviously continued with the advent of decentralized file sharing, torrents, music blog sites, etc. to the point where few people, not just youngsters, feel like music has any monetary value. Now with Youtube and similar sites, I think we're at the point where people feel less inclined to even download music, because it's always just a click away. Sure, maybe CDs seem overpriced even now, but that's because they're being compared to something that costs zero to the end listener.

[BrontoSoreAss]

I find this notion that CDs are somehow overpriced laughable...
I think it's safe to say that the price of CDs has decreased considerably over time.

This is the sort of thing I'm talking about:

http://www.amazon.ca/Liar-Rm-Digi-Jesus ... 404&sr=8-3

vs.

http://www.amazon.ca/Liar-Rm-Download-C ... 404&sr=8-6

Both are the same album: The Jesus Lizard - Liar (remastered)

The CD is $17.99 CDN. The Vinyl is $22.95 CDN - both these prices are from the same retailer, amazon.ca

The difference between the two is $4.96.

The CD offers me a digital version of the album. I will rip it onto my computer then throw it in my car (which is the only place I actually listen to CDs).

For about $5 more I can get a nice hunk of vinyl (which I find quite desirable for all sorts of reasons - a few of which have been stated in this thread) and a digital version of the album - and when I want to listen to it in my car I'll grab a shiny frisbee off my cheap spool from the local office supply store and burn it on.

For $5 more and I get an awesome vinyl record which I will cherish + the convince of digital media.... or I can save $5, buy the cd that will just get thrown in my car, scratched and lost.

The choice seems pretty obvious to me. I'm sure you could find counter examples where the cost of the CD is significantly cheaper then the vinyl + download, but the sort of scenario I am pointing to as an example is not an uncommon one (this is the first album I thought to search for on amazon).

So yeah CDs are overpriced. Their value cannot just be determined by a consideration of their price over the years - it must also be measured up against the current alternatives. Personally, I will buy the vinyl+download package every time if it is an option. Even if the download isn't included, I'll buy the vinyl and download (yes pirate) a copy of the album. I will only buy CD's if that is the only option/way to support the artist. Hell, I'd rather download (yes pirate) their album and grab a bunch of merch (t-shirts, hoodies, posters whatever) then buy some plastic piece of shit that will get lost/scratched at some point.

[EasyGo]

Look, we can split hairs over the cost of CDs vs. vinyl, but it's pretty clear that both of these formats are as dead as Betamax. Let's just have fun writing songs, cutting tracks, and playing gigs, because it's a labor of love only at this point.

[BrontoSoreAss]

look, we can split hairs over the cost of CDs vs. vinyl, but it's pretty clear that both of these formats are as dead as Betamax. Let's just have fun writing songs, cutting tracks, and playing gigs, because it's a labor of love only at this point.

I will always have fun writing, recording and playing out. LOVE, LOVE, LOVE<3 music.

However, the claim that vinyl is as dead as betamax, I think should be rethought. Vinyl sales are going up. That is a fact. Have you been visiting the indie record stores in your area lately? In my area at least, they are full of new vinyl. Even HMV is starting to fill their shelves with vinyl. Futureshop, Bestbuy and Costco are all selling cheapy record players. I'm seeing vinyl everywhere.

Seriously try this: Go through the "best of 2010" thread and see how many of those new albums are available through amazon on vinyl. I will confidently say a lot, if not most of them are. Tons of bands/artists are putting releases out on vinyl now.

Vinyl is far from dead. I'm pretty happy about it personally.

[EasyGo]

Ok, vinyl is hip again. I get it, and that's encouraging to hear. When I go to Reckless Records or Dusty Groove I see plenty of new vinyl on the wall. Still, vinyl sales amount to a small blip compared to legal downloads and a much smaller blip compared to other downloads.

But going back to the subject of this thread: I will be curious to find out if your band's free downloads will encourage enough vinyl sales to make the costs of pressing worth it. If this is a model that works, then I'm all for it.

[darjama]

A little context to the resurrection of vinyl / death of the CD:

http://arstechnica.com/media/news/2010/ ... -slide.ars

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2010/01/cd ... d-in-2009/

In a comparison of 08 to 09 numbers, US vinyl albums went from 1.9 million to 2.5 million. Digital albums went from 65.8 million to 76.4. So while vinyl made a greater percentage increase than digital albums, They still sold 3.3% the number of units as digital albums or .67% of all albums sold in 2009. CDs still accounted for 80% of all albums purchased approximately 295 million. When taking into account digital single sales, digital music makes up 40% of the market.

We'll see in a month or two how 2010 stacks up.