Drum Phase

[kRza.]

I know it when I hear something out of phase - well versed in how to sleuth it out on the mixing board.

However - how can you prevent phase issues when micing the kit initially? Specifically the kick drum.
I see a lot of threads about multiple mics on the kick and snare & am curious how you guys go about making sure things are phase cool going to tape?

[thethingwiththestuff]

you can listen in headphones as you move the mics around and the drummer plays. in some situations, you might actually want to listen for the MOST cancellation between the two sources, and then flip the polarity on one channel at the board.

[Nick Sevilla]

I know it when I hear something out of phase - well versed in how to sleuth it out on the mixing board.

However - how can you prevent phase issues when micing the kit initially? Specifically the kick drum.
I see a lot of threads about multiple mics on the kick and snare & am curious how you guys go about making sure things are phase cool going to tape?

"SANITIZED FOR YOUR CONVENIENCE."

Cheers

[@?,*???&?]

Then I add the second overhead.

Wow that's weird. The concern should be to make it work in mono first. A second overhead mic (for stereo image) shouldn't be the first focus.

EVERYTHING should be phased-out in reference to the bass drum and snare drum.

A lone overhead and kick mic are usually a great place to start. Once you phase out the overhead mic with the kick, then listen to lone overhead and snare drum mic.

The problem with two overhead mics first is the 'phantom center image'. Once you phase a single mic with kick mic(s), then you set about assembling a realistic stereo image with the overheads (while still referencing those mics individually to kick and snare.

Sometimes, I'll start with room mics (stereo image is less discrete than overheads most times) and phase those out with kick first.

Low frequencies below 400 Hz are way more susceptible to phase variation than higher frequencies. It's important to deal with those FIRST when tracking.

[terryb]

I don't have a control room and I have a very difficult time making those critical decisions when my ears have just been blasted by the drums in the same room as myself.
Any advice?

[Gregg Juke]

terryb:

Do you have anything (desk, baffles/gobos, big dresser, etc.) that you could use to get a little distance/separation between you and the drums?

Isolation headphones would probably help...

GJ

[MoreSpaceEcho]

I don't have a control room and I have a very difficult time making those critical decisions when my ears have just been blasted by the drums in the same room as myself.
Any advice?

go to home depot and get a pair of heavy duty ear protectors. do it asap. you don't want to be sitting in a room with a drummer without hearing protection, ever.

[Nick Sevilla]

Then I add the second overhead.

Wow that's weird. The concern should be to make it work in mono first. A second overhead mic (for stereo image) shouldn't be the first focus.

EVERYTHING should be phased-out in reference to the bass drum and snare drum.

A lone overhead and kick mic are usually a great place to start. Once you phase out the overhead mic with the kick, then listen to lone overhead and snare drum mic.

The problem with two overhead mics first is the 'phantom center image'. Once you phase a single mic with kick mic(s), then you set about assembling a realistic stereo image with the overheads (while still referencing those mics individually to kick and snare.

Sometimes, I'll start with room mics (stereo image is less discrete than overheads most times) and phase those out with kick first.

Low frequencies below 400 Hz are way more susceptible to phase variation than higher frequencies. It's important to deal with those FIRST when tracking.

"SANITIZED FOR YOUR CONVENIENCE."

Cheers

[ashcat_lt]

How completely unhip of you! Mono is the only correct answer.

Seriously, though, unless you expect everybody in the world to sit in the sweet spot or put on heaphones when listening to your mixes, mono compatability should be something to check now and then.

That said, I'd be willing to bet that your way works fine.

[eeldip]

fix with computron.

[MoreSpaceEcho]

BOO!

[apropos of nothing]

3:1 rule of mic placement. It worked for me!

eta: bb-code hates me.

[losthighway]

Anyone else out there find searching for phase problems before the starting line to be tail chasing?

Maybe I'm simple minded, but I like to use a trusted setup on a well tuned kit and then listen to some drums and see if it sounds cool. I might flip some phase to check, but I consider drum mic'ing to imply a palette of imperfect phase relationships. My balancing act is between the potential color, or support of a few more mics, and the further tangling of the phase web they can cause.

Mic'ing multiple sources that are near each other, while capturing room ambiance has phase relationship hitting a kind of fractal complexity. If I walked around with every mic listening through ISO-phones the drummer would probably fall asleep on his/her stool.

The one anal thing I do is to measure the distance between the snare and the overheads when not using XY or ORTF, to make sure both OH mics are equidistant from the snare.

If the drums sound weird during initial playback, then move a mic.

[@?,*???&?]

3:1 rule of mic placement. It worked for me!

eta: bb-code hates me.

In general, yes, but the phantom center image is much more sensitive than that.

[Nick Sevilla]

3:1 rule of mic placement. It worked for me!

eta: bb-code hates me.

In general, yes, but the phantom center image is much more sensitive than that.

"SANITIZED FOR YOUR CONVENIENCE."

Cheers