I know a guitar specific forum may be a more appropriate place for this sort of topic, but there are a lot of very stupid people on guitar forums.
I've got a late 90s American Standard Telecaster. I love this guitar. Some time between my last band braking up and my new one starting, the bridge pickup seemed to have become microphonic. Taps on the body, flipping the toggle switch, etc. are all heard loud and clear through the amp. I figured the pickup just needed to be re-potted. I had the pickup swapped out with a GFS Vintage Noiseless unit. Same deal. Nothing changed. Anyone have an idea what may be causing this?
Telecaster Microphonic Bridge Pickup
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Nick Sevilla
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Jim Williams
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Ah, the telecaster, so much promise, so much trouble. I love and play them almost exclusively. And I play on "11".
I have mine all set up to play very loud without any instabilities. Like an old 1965 strat, I can shove it up against my 120 watt basson amp and it won't squeal. I wanted to be able to do all the Hendrix stuff on a tele, and I can.
Here's how i do it:
First, the pickup must be wax potted. Your pickup is already treated if it's less than 40 years old. Second, I remove the steel plate on the back of the pickup. It's magnetic, and if it moves, it squeals. I use 6/36 keps nuts under the pickup to hold it to the adjustment screws. You can alternately use a blob of wax dampening between the plate and the pickup if you want to keep it.
Next, I fasten the bridge down securely. If it moves, it squeals. I use silicone glue around the edges to secure the flanges of the bridgeplate as it sometimes does not sit completely flat under pressure. If you tap on it and hear any metal sound, not good. It should thud like a piece of wood.
Lastly, don't use metal springs for pickup adjustments, use surgical latex hose like Fender did back in the early 1960's. The springs are magnetic and move = squealing.
Lastly, the entire guitar interior is coated with copper foil tape for shielding. I use shielded cable off the pickups as well. Then I connect a .022 uf cap from the bridge to the ground to prevent electrocution. The results are a guitar without any hf buzz, even if you take your hands off the strings.
All of my Tele's are fitted with a custom preamp circuit I designed. It offeres up 26 db of clean gain to drive cables, amps, pedals well and it even drives headphones. It's also a hum cancelling circuit. I use a dummy coil and it tunes out the hum electronically. Some tele's measure an 80 db s/n ratio, exceptionally quiet for an electric guitar, no hum, no buzz, no worries...
I have mine all set up to play very loud without any instabilities. Like an old 1965 strat, I can shove it up against my 120 watt basson amp and it won't squeal. I wanted to be able to do all the Hendrix stuff on a tele, and I can.
Here's how i do it:
First, the pickup must be wax potted. Your pickup is already treated if it's less than 40 years old. Second, I remove the steel plate on the back of the pickup. It's magnetic, and if it moves, it squeals. I use 6/36 keps nuts under the pickup to hold it to the adjustment screws. You can alternately use a blob of wax dampening between the plate and the pickup if you want to keep it.
Next, I fasten the bridge down securely. If it moves, it squeals. I use silicone glue around the edges to secure the flanges of the bridgeplate as it sometimes does not sit completely flat under pressure. If you tap on it and hear any metal sound, not good. It should thud like a piece of wood.
Lastly, don't use metal springs for pickup adjustments, use surgical latex hose like Fender did back in the early 1960's. The springs are magnetic and move = squealing.
Lastly, the entire guitar interior is coated with copper foil tape for shielding. I use shielded cable off the pickups as well. Then I connect a .022 uf cap from the bridge to the ground to prevent electrocution. The results are a guitar without any hf buzz, even if you take your hands off the strings.
All of my Tele's are fitted with a custom preamp circuit I designed. It offeres up 26 db of clean gain to drive cables, amps, pedals well and it even drives headphones. It's also a hum cancelling circuit. I use a dummy coil and it tunes out the hum electronically. Some tele's measure an 80 db s/n ratio, exceptionally quiet for an electric guitar, no hum, no buzz, no worries...
Jim Williams
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99% of the time a Tele bridge pickup is microphonic, it's not the coil but rather the baseplate. There's a metal plate on the bottom of the pickup that influences the pickup's sound. If this is even slightly loose and subject to vibration, it's squeal-city.
Address that, and I'm sure your problem will be solved. I do NOT recommend removing it altogether, unless you are willing to deal with a change in sound. It's there for a reason. Just make sure it's fastened down tight.
Address that, and I'm sure your problem will be solved. I do NOT recommend removing it altogether, unless you are willing to deal with a change in sound. It's there for a reason. Just make sure it's fastened down tight.
The base plate on the new pickup is pretty secure, and the stock pickup didn't have one installed. Is there any way a ground issue could cause the guitar to exhibit these symptoms???????? wrote:99% of the time a Tele bridge pickup is microphonic, it's not the coil but rather the baseplate. There's a metal plate on the bottom of the pickup that influences the pickup's sound. If this is even slightly loose and subject to vibration, it's squeal-city.
Address that, and I'm sure your problem will be solved. I do NOT recommend removing it altogether, unless you are willing to deal with a change in sound. It's there for a reason. Just make sure it's fastened down tight.
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Jim Williams
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No. Grounding is not related to microphonics. It's something magnetic that moves. Most likely it's either the plate beneath the pickup or the bridge/mounting screws.
If the pickup is suspect, get some parawax and dip the pickup. If you want to retain the rear pickup plate, make sure there is some left over wax coating it so it's damped.
If you follow the directions I gave before, you will have a quiet guitar. Don't skip any of the steps as that will be the one that gets you in trouble.
If the pickup is suspect, get some parawax and dip the pickup. If you want to retain the rear pickup plate, make sure there is some left over wax coating it so it's damped.
If you follow the directions I gave before, you will have a quiet guitar. Don't skip any of the steps as that will be the one that gets you in trouble.
Jim Williams
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Got it! I was really getting upset about this whole thing. I really do love this guitar.
I bought some surgical tubing at Home Depot today ($15 for 10 ft! WTF!) and replaced the springs. No luck. I melted down four candles in a double boiler setup and potted the stock pickup. Et voila! Microphonics gone! I guess the pickup I received from Guitarfetish is either defective or not correctly potted.
I bought some surgical tubing at Home Depot today ($15 for 10 ft! WTF!) and replaced the springs. No luck. I melted down four candles in a double boiler setup and potted the stock pickup. Et voila! Microphonics gone! I guess the pickup I received from Guitarfetish is either defective or not correctly potted.
just for the sake of completeness--
In this case, you obviously did the right thing and are satisfied. With the GFS pickup, it was the right move.
However, it should be noted that there are several schools of thought with wax potting pickups, and with microphony in pickups in general.
There are many (I am among them) who believe that a slightly/moderately microphonic pickup is desirable. I prefer the sound of a microphonic pickup to a completely 'dead' pickup, provided it can be kept under control. Many sought-after vintage guitars have pickups exhibiting varying degrees of microphony. I believe that this is part of what people hear as "vintage" guitar sound.
If a pickup exhibits bothersome squeals under normal playing conditions, obviously it is too microphonic. If it doesn't, then it's fine. I would NEVER wax pot a pickup as a matter of course, as I believe this is like salting food without tasting it. I like my pickups to be as microphonic as I can get away with, because I prefer the sound.
Some manufacturers (like the vaunted Don Mare) "lightly pot" their pickups. Others, like WCR, use a special concoction instead of wax that allows pickups to keep some of their microphony. Others, like Wolfe McLeod (Wolfetone), carefully control the tension on the windings and the taping of the coils to mitigate the most offensive levels of microphony, while still allowing them to 'breathe' some-=-eschewing potting entirely. I had a long conversation on the phone with Wolfe at one time, and he contends that on a PAF, if taped and wound properly, will not need to be potted. I have two of his pickups in my guitars, and the proof is in the results.
All of these techniques are preferable in many cases, to my ear, than just sucking all the microphonic life out of a pickup with wax potting.
To my understanding, Gibson did not pot their PAFs at all back in the 1950s and 1960s. Fender actually did pot their pickups, all the way through, but lots of that wax has shaken loose over the years.
In any case, that's just a point of conversation. I'm glad you solved your problem. In your case, it was obviously needed and was the right call. In the future, I'd only do it as a last resort.
In this case, you obviously did the right thing and are satisfied. With the GFS pickup, it was the right move.
However, it should be noted that there are several schools of thought with wax potting pickups, and with microphony in pickups in general.
There are many (I am among them) who believe that a slightly/moderately microphonic pickup is desirable. I prefer the sound of a microphonic pickup to a completely 'dead' pickup, provided it can be kept under control. Many sought-after vintage guitars have pickups exhibiting varying degrees of microphony. I believe that this is part of what people hear as "vintage" guitar sound.
If a pickup exhibits bothersome squeals under normal playing conditions, obviously it is too microphonic. If it doesn't, then it's fine. I would NEVER wax pot a pickup as a matter of course, as I believe this is like salting food without tasting it. I like my pickups to be as microphonic as I can get away with, because I prefer the sound.
Some manufacturers (like the vaunted Don Mare) "lightly pot" their pickups. Others, like WCR, use a special concoction instead of wax that allows pickups to keep some of their microphony. Others, like Wolfe McLeod (Wolfetone), carefully control the tension on the windings and the taping of the coils to mitigate the most offensive levels of microphony, while still allowing them to 'breathe' some-=-eschewing potting entirely. I had a long conversation on the phone with Wolfe at one time, and he contends that on a PAF, if taped and wound properly, will not need to be potted. I have two of his pickups in my guitars, and the proof is in the results.
All of these techniques are preferable in many cases, to my ear, than just sucking all the microphonic life out of a pickup with wax potting.
To my understanding, Gibson did not pot their PAFs at all back in the 1950s and 1960s. Fender actually did pot their pickups, all the way through, but lots of that wax has shaken loose over the years.
In any case, that's just a point of conversation. I'm glad you solved your problem. In your case, it was obviously needed and was the right call. In the future, I'd only do it as a last resort.
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Jim Williams
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A squealing guitar is about as popular as a squealing microphone. I never heard the crowd love a squealing PA system, they don't like it.
Back in the late 1960's we were all potting up our Gibson pickups because they could't take the SPL's of the newer 100 and 200 watt British amps.
I remember Martin Barr and that sweet Les Paul Standard he played with Tull. At the Aqualung concert in Anaheim in 1972 he had 2 100 watt Hiwatt stacks, one pointing across the stage. Opening song and SQUEAL from the Paul. He couldn't control it the entire show, it was not making him happy either.
Fender changed from wax potting to a conformal coating on their brown magnet wire in 1969. I do remember Hendrix having a hell of a time controlling those strats when the older rosewood models with their wax potting, surgical hose pickup mounts and metal screening plate didn't have those problems.
I never thought a non musical shreek coming at unpredictable moments would be a desired thing, but I also never thought a loud black man screaming into a microphone only accompanied by a cheap Japanese drum machine would be payed millions of dollars and become cultural heros either.
Maybe I'm getting too old?
Back in the late 1960's we were all potting up our Gibson pickups because they could't take the SPL's of the newer 100 and 200 watt British amps.
I remember Martin Barr and that sweet Les Paul Standard he played with Tull. At the Aqualung concert in Anaheim in 1972 he had 2 100 watt Hiwatt stacks, one pointing across the stage. Opening song and SQUEAL from the Paul. He couldn't control it the entire show, it was not making him happy either.
Fender changed from wax potting to a conformal coating on their brown magnet wire in 1969. I do remember Hendrix having a hell of a time controlling those strats when the older rosewood models with their wax potting, surgical hose pickup mounts and metal screening plate didn't have those problems.
I never thought a non musical shreek coming at unpredictable moments would be a desired thing, but I also never thought a loud black man screaming into a microphone only accompanied by a cheap Japanese drum machine would be payed millions of dollars and become cultural heros either.
Maybe I'm getting too old?
Last edited by Jim Williams on Fri Dec 24, 2010 7:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
Jim Williams
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it's funny, i thought you were gonna mention neil young when you were talking about microphonic pickups. the one in his les paul is very microphonic and definitely part of his sound.
but he might not be the best example of the current trend you mention of less powerful backlines. sure, he's got the deluxe but his stage volume is actually very loud. after all, he's also got the big magnatone cab, supposedly fed by a 400 watt bass amp. http://www.guitarworld.com/article/neil ... gged_glory
sorry to derail!
but he might not be the best example of the current trend you mention of less powerful backlines. sure, he's got the deluxe but his stage volume is actually very loud. after all, he's also got the big magnatone cab, supposedly fed by a 400 watt bass amp. http://www.guitarworld.com/article/neil ... gged_glory
sorry to derail!
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Jim Williams
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Although I have the 120 watt stack, I also use my 1966 Fender Deluxe Reverb more. It was my club amp for many years back in LA when I had the Blues Buzzards band, maybe you caught us at the Palomino, Long Beach Blues Festivals or other blues venues in town?
I would put it on a milk crate for most gigs. Sometimes in smaller venues I would place it on a bar stool so it would be right behind my back.
Yes, I still employ feedback into the act with that rig. My hollow Tele thinline is great for picking up lower SPL's and still giving me the feedback I use. However, it is all controlled feedback based on string movment, not pickup instabilities.
As to the supposed magical properties of unpotted magnetic pickups, I suppose those that want that can go buy it. I prefer predictability and stability. I would make a bad anarchist.
I would put it on a milk crate for most gigs. Sometimes in smaller venues I would place it on a bar stool so it would be right behind my back.
Yes, I still employ feedback into the act with that rig. My hollow Tele thinline is great for picking up lower SPL's and still giving me the feedback I use. However, it is all controlled feedback based on string movment, not pickup instabilities.
As to the supposed magical properties of unpotted magnetic pickups, I suppose those that want that can go buy it. I prefer predictability and stability. I would make a bad anarchist.
Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades
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