Any Hackintosh users?

[kslight]

Okay just a disclaimer... I am not interested in starting a debate about Mac vs PC or the actual ethics of building a Hackintosh system, just whether or not anyone here has a system configured for audio use, specifically Pro Tools. I am not in a commercial facility the primary function of the machine would be for my personal projects and a few mixing/mastering/remixing projects for hire out of my home studio.


That said... I'm seriously considering building a Hackintosh for my next audio computer. My current setup is getting long in the tooth and is still running Windows XP (and it will stay that way) and Pro Tools 7.1 and a handful of plugins. I'd like to move on to Pro Tools 9 for adc mainly anong other newer features which I believe requires either Windows 7 or Snow Leopard? I'd also like to get a UAD2 which I think requires at least PT 7.4? I would go buy a "real" Mac Pro but I'm not into buying used computers, and I can't afford the cost of entry (which as this won't be much of a money making machine I can't justify). I'm not interested in running Windows 7 so my next logical option is Mac OS obviously (not interested in Linux).

[BrontoSoreAss]

Just out of curiosity why aren't you interested in running windows 7?

[kslight]

Just out of curiosity why aren't you interested in running windows 7?

Not interested in paying to be a software beta tester as MS operating systems tend to require three service packs to be stable and still isn't secure, overall discontent with Windows.

[darjama]

Let me get this straight: Windows 7 is bad because you're afraid it won't be stable, but running OS X on unsupported hardware is going to avoid that problem?

Is anyone having stability problems with Windows 7?

[BrontoSoreAss]

Not interested in paying to be a software beta tester as MS operating systems tend to require three service packs to be stable and still isn't secure, overall discontent with Windows.

I'll throw it out there that am finding windows 7 to be really stable, I've had no issues with it at all. Out of genuine curiosity I'd like to know why you don't think w7 is secure?

Anyways the idea of a hackintosh system for audio sounds really cool to me. I'm eager to here how it turns out if thats the route you persue.

[aitikin]

Yeah, I'm running a Hackintosh with my Fireface 800 and Logic Studio. I haven't run Pro Tools on it, and no know that I personally know in the Hackintosh community has.

That being said, you REALLY have to choose your parts carefully. Insanely Mac (formerly osx86 project) is a wonderful resource that has been there since a week or two after the first copy of Intel based OS X and has some of the best answers available. For the most part, GeForce based motherboards and nVidia cards are what I've had the best luck with (and I think what most people over there have had the the best luck with).

Honestly, my Hackintosh is at least 3-4 times more stable than it ever was as a Windows machine, but I mess around ad break things on both systems. The Hack just seems to take less (ironically) hacking to get it back to a fully functional setup.

I have other tips for ya if you want.

(EDIT: Forgot the hyperlink for Insanely Mac)

[kslight]

Thanks I've been to the Insanely Mac and realize that parts selection is critical, which is something I take into count when building a machine.. Currently seems almost straight forward to load a Hackintosh now...used to be a lot more steps involved but the current tools available make it look dead simple outside of parts selection. I have seen reports of people running systems with Pro Tools online but just curious if any one had taken it that far on TOMB...which is what I was asking not really thinking that I have to explain how I've devised that Microsoft has a history of selling broken software.

What it comes down to:

I don't want to use Windows, I have many reasons why that is. I want a Mac Pro. I don't have $2500 to spend on a machine that won't be paying my bills, and I feel that while Mac OS X is great, Macs themselves are artificially overpriced and Apple does not offer a middle ground system that comes in a tower format that is in my budget....if the iMac came in a tower format I'd buy it. I do enjoy and have lots of experience building PCs. I do intend to buy Mac OS software and not use any illegal distributions on my computer. If I build and fail then I will surrender and buy Windows 7 with my tail between my legs, boo hoo out $50 or whatever it is for Mac OS. If I build and succeed I have gained myself a Mac OS system for a fraction of the cost. Either way I see it I win...sure there's a time investment involved but even then I still won't come close to the cost of a Mac Pro. I am sorry if this offends some people.

[aitikin]

Macs themselves are artificially overpriced and Apple does not offer a middle ground system that comes in a tower format that is in my budget....if the iMac came in a tower format I'd buy it.

Depends on when you buy. If you were to buy a brand new (as in model refresh) Mac Pro, you'll probably spend less than a comparatively spec'd Dell, HP, or most other major manufacturers and get much better customer support (general statements) so long as you don't decide to have Apple upgrade your RAM. Their customizations are sometimes way overpriced and sometimes very reasonable. Even now a comparable Alienware (Dell owns Alienware) desktop is only $200 cheaper ($50 if you buy through Amazon) and the last refresh on a Mac Pro was about 6 months ago.

Regardless, you are correct in stating that if Apple were to offer a mid-priced tower, the Hackintosh community would be less existent. Kind of pathetic, but it's true. If you need any help, let me know. It's been a while since I had to do an install (which should be a good indicator), but I remember most of it.

[Snarl 12/8]

Okay just a disclaimer... I am not interested in starting a debate about Mac vs PC or the actual ethics of building a Hackintosh system

I think discussing this on this board is uncool. You're putting TOMB at risk by discussing how to accomplish illegal things here. Personally, I'm cool with you hacking Apple. I fucking hate them as a company. But could you take this discussion off-line, or, off this line, so I can keep my TOMB online and my Larry out of court?

I'm sorry that I've violated the terms of your thread.

[JES]

I prefer OSX to Windows (just like it better and it's what I know -- not making any grand claims about MS), but my sense from hackintosh users is that you do get all sorts of tweaking going on that sort of renders the whole "it just works" schtick irrelevant.My sense is that the hackintosh route is really for the tinkerer in OSX, like the homebrew PC crowd.

Also, software conflicts and stuff still exist in OSX. I use some esoteric plugs in Live and sometimes suffer crashes. YMMV.

[kslight]

Okay just a disclaimer... I am not interested in starting a debate about Mac vs PC or the actual ethics of building a Hackintosh system

I think discussing this on this board is uncool. You're putting TOMB at risk by discussing how to accomplish illegal things here. Personally, I'm cool with you hacking Apple. I fucking hate them as a company. But could you take this discussion off-line, or, off this line, so I can keep my TOMB online and my Larry out of court?

I'm sorry that I've violated the terms of your thread.

While in violation of Apple's EULA, so long as I don't configure said systems for sale there is nothing about this thread that'll put anybody in court. I have on several occasions seen pirated software discussed on this forum and though I do not support software piracy, to my knowledge the forum has not been taken down for that either.

[aitikin]

Okay just a disclaimer... I am not interested in starting a debate about Mac vs PC or the actual ethics of building a Hackintosh system

I think discussing this on this board is uncool. You're putting TOMB at risk by discussing how to accomplish illegal things here. Personally, I'm cool with you hacking Apple. I fucking hate them as a company. But could you take this discussion off-line, or, off this line, so I can keep my TOMB online and my Larry out of court?

I'm sorry that I've violated the terms of your thread.

While in violation of Apple's EULA, so long as I don't configure said systems for sale there is nothing about this thread that'll put anybody in court. I have on several occasions seen pirated software discussed on this forum and though I do not support software piracy, to my knowledge the forum has not been taken down for that either.

And the simple fact of the matter is, EULAs are not 100% legally binding or enforceable, and, according to the EULA, so long as it's an "Apple-Branded" computer it's legit. So go out and buy yourself a couple of those Apple stickers that come with every iPod and apply it to the computer (from a textbook, dictionary definition) you have an Apple-Branded computer.

As for Hackintosh being for tinkerers, I am a tinkerer and I used to run Linux, Hackintosh, and Windows XP SP2 all off of the same computer (2 off the same hard drive), but for the past 2 years that machine has not seen Linux or Windows except in Parallels. I drop to the commandline every once in a blue moon to delete a bunch of files at the same time, or maybe there's a permissions issue that I wanna fix, but otherwise, I haven't tinkered with it in a year.

Honestly, I just did the instructions for my mobo, and I was set. There's a couple of minor issues, but until I start making money off of recording, I'm going to be perfectly content to have a Hackintosh.

If Apple were upset enough to take down every site that had people talking about Hackintoshes and had legal recourse to do so (here's a secret, they don't!), www.slashdot.org, www.insanelymac.com, and a whole horde of others would be gone by now.

Furthermore, it'd be really bad business to go after people who are paying for their primary product, namely software (Jobs as been quoted as saying Apple is a software company). Of course, we all know of a group that does that, but that's a whole nother issue.

[jnTracks]

Depends on when you buy. If you were to buy a brand new (as in model refresh) Mac Pro, you'll probably spend less than a comparatively spec'd Dell, HP, or most other major manufacturers and get much better customer support (general statements) so long as you don't decide to have Apple upgrade your RAM. Their customizations are sometimes way overpriced and sometimes very reasonable. Even now a comparable Alienware (Dell owns Alienware) desktop is only $200 cheaper ($50 if you buy through Amazon) and the last refresh on a Mac Pro was about 6 months ago.

lol what?!?!

the cheapest mac pro is $2500 with 3gb of 1066 ram
the most comparable dell is $1100 and has 8gb of 1333 ram

that's a $1400 price difference and you're getting a lot more computer, but who's counting?

and you can always cut something like 25% off that price if you buy parts and build your own as the OP was going to do. skip the dell markup. in fact, he's rolling his own so he'll save by not buying the windows OS too.

can we stop perpetuating this myth that the price difference is exaggerated?
i'm sorry to be jumping on you but stuff like this gets repeated over and over and that's why people believe it. i have no problem with apple, they're a private company and they can do what they want but, there is no competition in a market of only 1 company so... they're markup is whatever they want to make.
if you're gonna go around saying the markup is even remotely similar to other pre-built computer companies at least get us all on an apple stock group buy first!

[aitikin]

Depends on when you buy. If you were to buy a brand new (as in model refresh) Mac Pro, you'll probably spend less than a comparatively spec'd Dell, HP, or most other major manufacturers and get much better customer support (general statements) so long as you don't decide to have Apple upgrade your RAM. Their customizations are sometimes way overpriced and sometimes very reasonable. Even now a comparable Alienware (Dell owns Alienware) desktop is only $200 cheaper ($50 if you buy through Amazon) and the last refresh on a Mac Pro was about 6 months ago.

lol what?!?!

the cheapest mac pro is $2500 with 3gb of 1066 ram
the most comparable dell is $1100 and has 8gb of 1333 ram

Definitely did not see that (I remember when Alienware was great stuff and everything). Although it doesn't have as good graphics card, uses the i7 family Lynnfield processor versus the Xeon family Nehalem, which is usually a hefty price jump.

The i7 in the Dell is the 870 for $280:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6819115213

The comparable (NOTE: Not the Xeon in the Mac Pro) Xeon is the X3470 for $353:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... -_-Product

A 2.8 GHz Nehalem processor goes for a whopping $1,208:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... -_-Product

There is also a hefty price difference in motherboards (server versus consumer) and RAM as the Dell uses standard RAM and the Mac Pro uses ECC with thermal sensors, as well as built-in bluetooth and 802.11-a/b/g/n (wifi) (not taking up a PCI slot of any kind), wireless mouse, and a USB hub keyboard (which, admittedly, is about $5 difference, but the others are a little more significant).

Long story short, while it does look comparable at a glance...it's not really.

Server parts aren't really cheap and are generally more reliable.

That being said, I'd still rather see a consumer grade and less prosumer grade tower from Apple, but what are you gonna do about that.

[calaverasgrandes]

I recently (as in last week) bought a Macbook pro. I work in IT and several guys I know asked me why I didnt just get a Hackintosh.
1-I figured out a while ago that buying the retail version (instead of hacked) entitles me to support and interim releases (the x.1.2 bug fixes etc). This goes for all software, OS and plugins.
2-I don't want to deal with drivers. This has been a major bane of my existence as an IT guy since 64 bit has started gathering steam.
3-I actually really like the way macbooks look. Come on, you know you want one.
4-Firewire is Macs baby, they pioneered it, so it MUST work on their hardware.

To me the appeal of Mac OS X is it's UNIX underpinnings. I can play around on the command line with stuff I learned on college mainframes years ago. The fact that its a decent music production platform is bonus. There is also that I can support PC clients from within Parallels, use SSH from the command line to connect to my webserver and use iChat, screen sharing or ARD to support Mac clients.
Finally the main reason why I love os X from an IT perspective is the ability to image my current install and save it onto an external drive. If this disk goes south I can be back up in running on exactly the same environment in about 2 hours (how long it takes to image over firewire will vary depending on the size of the disk image and firewire speed).
About Win 7. It works fucking brilliantly. I have several win 7 computers, have been on 7 since the Beta from last year. So yeah, MS already did a very wide public beta. Anyone and their red headed auntie could download Win 7 last year for free. Thats millions of people installing it on all kinds of hardware. Does it have problems? Sure, but so does Os X and Sun Solaris. There is no perfect OS. It does have much better memory management than Vista and XP. It is slow on less than a gig of ram, something OS X is not even usable on I might add, but flys on 2 gigs, and screams in 8 gigs. The line about windows OS not being stable until the 3rd service pack? Where did you pick that up? It's common IT guy wisdom that it is not stable until the FIRST service pack. Which Seven is at now. It is also commonly accepted that seven is really just Vista 2.0. It looks almost the same, but performs better.
I recently bullt a win 7 x64 image for a client sales dept. It was fast, painless and 7 found almost all the drivers right out of the box. Only a few needed to be downloaded. OTOH the licensing for 7 is Kafkaesque. The expect you to maintain a server process that re-auths your installations every 60 days if you have more than 25 seats in 7. The other PITA with 7 is 802.1x and other enterprise auth schemes.
Mac Os is a lot less nosy. However whenever I image a new mac with a standard image we have worked up the ONLY apps that need to re-auth are the Mac ones. So they know how many seats you have on that Logic lisc or that Final Cut lisc!