Vinyl duplication vs. CD

[Judas Jetski]

Hey, let's do it! Uh... but how's Zebb's for vegetarian options?

[Judas Jetski]

here, I'll share with you the rundown of the initial costs from RTI and Stan Ricker:


$450.00 two sides, lacquers cut, mastering, shipping to plant (from SR)

$400.00 for two sides of three step metal processing

$75.00 for test pressings

$1,200.00 for 1000 regular weight records

$150.00 for pink poly sleeves

$350.00 for 1000 solid white jackets

$33.00 tax on metal parts required by the state of California

$200.00 shipping for 1000 records

=

$2858.00 Total

I'm totally with you, especially regarding the aesthetic of vinyl. I personally don't even bother with CDs any more, unless its something I already want, at a price I can't say no to... and that's only if there isn't a vinyl release accompanying it. I have heard CDs that sound good, even when stacked up against vinyl. Nick Cave's Dig!!! Lazarus, Dig!!! for instance, which sounds good in both formats (but definitely different).

I'm even with you on price per unit. I'd rather pay $2 for something I love, than $1 for something I'm less than thrilled about.

Thing is, there's that total--which is more than double what we paid for our run of 500 CDs in digipacks, including artwork, and mastering. If we were looking for "as many records as we could get for under 3 grand," it would have been vinyl. I wish it could have been. But unless something changes, we've gotta keep that eye firmly planted on the bottom line. It's frustrating, but I really don't see any alternative.

[Gregg Juke]

yeah, that's a great price, but it's still gonna be CD's and downloads for us, until there's a lot more budget available on this end.

And what about margins? i can't see charging the average Joe high-end vynil prices (because we don't have a high-end audience!), and that means $10 to $15 per LP, which barely recoups your 3 grand layout.

GJ

PS-- JJ Andy-- They have a salad bar (?)

[chris harris]

And what about margins? i can't see charging the average Joe high-end vynil prices (because we don't have a high-end audience!), and that means $10 to $15 per LP, which barely recoups your 3 grand layout.

They'd have to sell 286 copies at $10 each. Only 191 at $15 each. Margins look great.

[Judas Jetski]

Yeah, for me the one sticking point is that initial buy-in. Profit margin wouldn't be that big a thing for me, 'cause an extra buck per copy just means I'd have to sell 10% more product at the other end... or sell records for a little more than I'd sell CDs. I don't think either would be a deal-breaker. It's just that huge initial outlay. It's not unreasonable, considering what you're getting. It's just out of reach for us.

Maybe it's a Northeast thing, but it seems like nobody's going to want to buy your record if you aren't "established," and you aren't going to get "established" if you don't have a record. Actually, several records.

[Gregg Juke]

Ah. Late night bleary-eyed, I meant to post "$5-$10," but my math skills are still non-existent; maybe it is "crazy enough to work?"

I was speaking with somebody at a pretty well-known contemporary vynil label last week. He said that vynil is cool, but still only about 10% of total sales. For me, that would be a significant additional cost of pressing, to maybe recoup the initial outlay, and I don't know if they'd sell at gigs. Is there anybody doing decent work with runs under 1000? It is an intriguing idea (and would just seem to intrinsically make a label "more cool").

I wonder how many units (if any) an unknown band could move on "Record Store Day?"

GJ

[Judas Jetski]

The 'Record Store Day question' is a good one. I'm still not sure that it's not going to wind up a flash in the pan... this year all I saw was one or two records I actually would buy, one didn't ship in sufficient numbers for anyone local to get, one was overpriced. The rest were all rehash or overpriced reissues obviously aimed at the collector market. It's starting to feel like the people reissuing the records are assuming that no one's ever going to actually open them--just sell them, and re-sell them, sealed.

Just yesterday I had a chat with a customer at the Bop Shop here in Rochester (where the owner hardly even bothers with CDs, because they don't move like vinyl does). He mentioned that it used to be (like, last year) you could assume a reissue of an old album was worth taking a risk on, because odds were it was something good... but that's not true any more. The labels are all fishing around for the next big underground hit from the dusty archives of the early 80s, which isn't a bad thing, but does make a blind purchase pretty risky.

Too bad nobody's putting that kind of effort into new artist development.

[Judas Jetski]

Oh, crap! But I forgot to say, I still think the right record, with the right packaging, at the right price probably would sell on record store day. Thing is, it'd have to bring the goods, and actually be what it looked like.

(Which gets into another issue, which is aesthetic--back in the day, an outsider aesthetic meant outsider music. These days, an outsider aesthetic is almost obligatory, no matter what the genre.)

[maggot]

If y'all haven't heard the Dylan mono analog reissues on LP of 'Blonde on Blonde' and 'Freewheelin', you're missing out. Talk about a ghost coming into your living room. It defines transparent. Those are what I call 'control room reference playbacks'. Or, blow you head off to the first Traffic record "Heaven Is In Your Mind". Steve Winwood will change your soul forever. Oh, wait, you haven't heard Marley on vinyl either? I guess you haven't had the pictures shaken off the walls of your house as you and your old lady get down like you never have before.

Marley is the one artist that I just can't listen to on CD. The bass and drums just sound bad on CD after you've heard the vinyl.