The end of preamp lust?

[b3groover]

I recently upgraded my AD/DA conversion from three Presonus Firepods to a Yamaha N12 digital mixer and a Steinberg MR816x (also made by Yamaha and compatible with the N12) on loan from a friend.

The cool thing about the MR816x is the ability to do Direct Monitoring in Cubase, which means I can set up latency-free headphone mixes in the software from any input to any output. Pretty groovy.

I had read a lot about the preamps in the MR816x (they are the same in the N12) and a few people claimed that they were good enough to cure the lust for other preamps.

Even though I have 8 channels of vintage Quad Eight at my disposal, plus some nice Melcor/API preamps with 2520's in them, a stereo pair of Yamaha PM1000 preamps, and the TNC wanna-be Neves among others, I decided to do an experiment today and only use the N12/MR816x preamps to record my organ/guitar/drums trio. Have a listen:

Never Can Say Goodbye - mp3

This is a rough mix, with just a touch of bus compression on the drums, some multiband compression on the main mix as well as a limiter. A bit of compression on the guitar as well, to even out some notes. I'm using the stock Cubase plugs. I used a little bit of EQ on the organ bass, but that's the only instance of EQ. The reverb is also from the MR816x, Yamaha's nice REV-x reverb, which you can use during tracking for headphone mixes and then as a plug-in during mixing. Pretty cool.

The dirty details:

Yamaha Beech Custom kit:
Overheads - Audio Technica ATM450 pair in an ORTF configuration.
Kick - cheap $40 Superlux dynamic, in the front hole, aimed off center from the beater.
Snare - mic'd with both a tube mod'd MXL 603s and an Audio Technica ATM650. Decided to use the AT on this track. Might use the 603s on the swing tunes.
Floor Tom - The only tom that needed a spot mic; the rack toms sound great in the overheads, I think. Audio Technica ATM25.
Room mics - TNC tube mics; forget the model number. Short, stubby guys (kinda look like Charter Oak rip-offs) in omni.

1954 Hammond C2 through a Leslie 122 with Gold Lion KT88 power tubes:
Leslie Top - Stellar stereo ribbon in a Mid/Side configuration. I used the Voxengo free M/S plug-in to decode.
Leslie Bottom - Audio Technica Pro37 on the rotor. ElectroVoice RE20 mic'ing up into the "port" just near the bottom rotor, phase reversed. Most of the bass mix is the RE20.

Gibson L5 into a Fender Reverb:
TNC AMC-3 ribbon mic (the Royer wanna-be, like the Nady RSM-3)

All in all, I'm really impressed with the Yamaha/Steinberg preamps. They are clean, fast, and to my ears capture exactly what the mic is "hearing". No fuss, no muss. The preamps in the Firepods weren't bad, but it's like lifting a cheese cloth off your mics; very clear and hi-fi sounding to me. Paired with making sure the mics are in their best positions for the source, I'm finding little or no EQ is necessary. Everything seems to gel together really easy.

Thoughts?

[Snarl 12/8]

That's one damn fine sounding mp3.

[Jitters]

No kidding!

[Sculli]

Very nice! I'm thinking you guys need to come up and play in Traverse City sometime soon.
Peace,
Kevin

[JWL]

Nicely done!

Regarding preamp lust, I agree. I will always tell people to use the best recording gear at their disposal, but I think the current climate of preamp lust overstates things a bit. As long as the preamps are relatively low-distortion, low-noise, with a flat frequency response, you can produce a good recording. Of course colored preamps can also be used skillfully to produce different results, but they aren't necessary....

[losthighway]

I think it's tough for any engineer to do away with gear lust all together. It's great though when you've arrived at a place where you feel you have the tools you need to make a great recording, that mediocre technology is no longer a barrier.

These things tend to come in cycles for me. I get to a place where I have more than adequate preamps, and I start looking through my mic cabinet thinking carefully about what is a niche that I could fill and make a huge difference. Then I start looking in my rack and wondering if there is a type of compressor that would give me some new options. These things move slow. Sooner or later I am aware of another preamp that I don't need for any inadequacies of what I have, but I want because it will do something my others do not.

After my studio was outfitted with Syteks, API's, and Great River's, I don't think many people would say "Oh his recordings don't sound as good as they should because he needs better mic pre's", but I still wanted to get a Germ because I knew it did something that even the Great Rivers don't do. Then good isn't a junk to boutique scale of quality, but having a diverse variety of tools used to achieve multiple specific goals.

It's always good though, to spend a lot of time on multiple projects, get to really know what you have and be content. Then later on if you want something else you have a better idea of how a different component interacts with the system. It's also nice at this point not to buy new things because the further you get the more expensive it gets. Right now I'm asking myself: another Germ pre, the last chunk of change I need to get new hardwood floors in my home, or a trip to Peru this spring.

I think I'll wait another 8-9 months on a new pre

[losthighway]

PS That's a fantastic sounding recording. The snare and toms sit in particularly nicely. I'm always jealous when people have the opportunity to record smaller jazz ensembles, it seems like you can let everything breath so much more. As opposed to carving out sections in a towering wall of rock.

[darjama]

My gearlust is waning too. I set up the singer in my band with a $36 behringer stereo usb converter and an old yamaha mini mixer, some decent mics and some absorption panels, and I'll be damned if doesn't sound almost as good as my conversion/preamp options costing an order on magnitude more. The low end stuff has gotten a lot better, especially on the conversion side of things.

[Jed]

In other news, my lust to be a better musician and play with better musicians is not at all slaked when I hear recordings like this.

Thanks a lot.



It's been said before by much smarter people than me: If you can't capture it with a 57 and a mackie maybe it's time to re-examine the music.

[plurgid]

WOW, that is a FANTASTIC recording.
Love those groovy organ chops, man ... that whole recording is so vivid. Well done.

[Electro-Voice 664]

Great recording! I don't listen to enough good organ music!

I'm curious, if you did the exact same tune through your colored pres what the sonic differences would be.

I don't want a shootout, just curious.

Either way the end results speak for themselves: Talented players and a talented engineer, matched with good gear is hard to beat.

Thanks for sharing

[trodden]

Can I have first dibs on your PM1000's?

Great song by the way! recording is beautiful and very "3D"

Wish I got to record more stuff like this rather than REALLY FUKING LOUD RAAAWWWKKK all the time.

[trodden]

any photos of the mic set up on the leslie?

Soon as I pay off the whiskmas bills, i'm saving to get my hammon/leslie rig running!

also, are the ATM450's your usual OH mic? I'm looking for another option even though I love my mc/mk 012's there, but really love them on toms...

[calaverasgrandes]

I ended up getting rid of pretty much all my gear except for my mic pres and mics over the last few years. I came to the conclusion that I can get just about anything done with mics and pres and sparing use of plug ins.
It also seems that spending more time getting stuff to sound great at the source ameliorates the need for the "worlds greatest preamp" to make the drums sound huge.

[Sean Sullivan]

Whatcha charge to play a little organ on song? Cool song.