The end of preamp lust?

[b3groover]

Thank you all for the kind words. I'm pretty stoked with how nice the tracks are sounding. This has been a long road for me, getting to this point. Like losthighway says, it's nice to finally be able to achieve what I want sonically with the tools I have and not feel the urge to buy something else. I have more mics than I need, more inputs than I need, a decent sounding room, an understanding wife (very important!), and thanks to this forum and hanging out with a good friend and local engineer, I feel I have the knowledge and experience to get the sounds in my head on "tape". Gee, it's only taken 20 some odd years.

I don't engineer for a living; I make my living playing and tuning / repairing pianos. But I've always loved the field of audio recording, ever since I was a young kid fascinated with the Fostex 4-track cassette recorder my dad brought home one day. I went from that to a Teac 4-track reel-to-reel, then to an original blackface ADAT, then to an Akai harddisk recorder, to a MOTU/Cubase setup, the Firepods, and now finally the Yamaha/Steinberg combo, all the while swearing to myself several times that I'd forget the idea of tracking a professional sounding CD at home. It's incredible how far technology has come. I echo darjama's sentiment that the "low-end" or prosumer stuff is now at the point where you can make really professional recordings.

Anyway, to answer some specific questions:

I'm curious, if you did the exact same tune through your colored pres what the sonic differences would be.

I wondered the same thing. This was really an experiment to see how good the Yamaha/Steinberg preamps sound. I think they passed with flying colors. I'll probably still use my Quad Eights on kick, snare, and toms, though. I also have a dual channel JLM Dual Servo 99v preamp that is awesome on pretty much everything. I'll be using that, too for sure. But it's nice to know that I'm not really going to lose much, if anything by using the Yammy's.

Can I have first dibs on your PM1000's?

Yes! If I decide to sell them. I bought them from digitaldrummer and they are great, but I have to admit I haven't been using them much lately. I might be tempted to let them go, especially since I'd really like to get a Dave Smith Tetra to expand my MoPho into Polyphonic Land.

also, are the ATM450's your usual OH mic? I'm looking for another option even though I love my mc/mk 012's there, but really love them on toms...

I usually go between the ATM450s and my Royer tube mod'd 603s mics. I really love the ATM450s in general. I have three of them and I'll probably pick up one or two more. They sound fantastic on drums; snare, toms, hi-hat, overheads, whatever. Shit, I bet they'd sound good on kick! I've used them on guitar amps (awesome), Leslie (awesome), and percussion (really awesome). They are great little mics.

The tube mod'd 603s sound cool, too. With a loud drummer they do this tube saturation / compression thing that is wicked. But I like the ATM450s on jazz drummers.

Whatcha charge to play a little organ on song? Cool song.

I'll send you a PM. I'd love to do it. The Leslie is still mic'd up.

any photos of the mic set up on the leslie?

Yes, see below.

I tried to get a good shot of the RE20. I aimed it up into the space where the bottom shelf (the shelf the actual woofer mounts to) is cut away, acting almost like a port. Later model Leslie 122 speakers have a port in the back, which is a great spot to mic if you're looking for nice bass (just remember to flip the phase since you're mic'ing the back of the speaker). This does basically the same thing. The smaller Pro37 captures the rotation of the bottom baffle.

This is a Leslie 47 with a 122 amp in it (just because my C2 isn't wired for a 47-style cabinet), single-speed, a lot like your 21H. I played through both the 47 and my 21H and decided to use the 47 for this session; it has a bit more high-end sizzle, which translates well in the organ trio context. The 21H is more mellow, but the bass is HUGE. Plus the C2 is already a mellow sounding organ. My 1958 B3 has a ton of bite and sounds great through the 21H, but it's in the garage right now.

I wanted to also mic my PR40 cabinet (talk about HUGE bass) but I don't have a 5pin cable long enough to get it outside the main tracking room. The Leslie is positioned over by our laundry area in the basement, outside my main tracking room.

[Nick Sevilla]

Now you may wear the cape :

[b3groover]

Finally!

[emrr]

I'm still collecting crayons, but at the same time, I've never listened to things I did on a Mackie 15 years ago, and thought about the preamps impact on the end result. They would sound different, but it's a very minor part of any retro observation.

[calaverasgrandes]

I'm still collecting crayons, but at the same time, I've never listened to things I did on a Mackie 15 years ago, and thought about the preamps impact on the end result. They would sound different, but it's a very minor part of any retro observation.

Really? I always cringe when I listen to stuff I recorded on Mackies 15 years ago. I hate what the mackie preamp does to drums!

[drumsound]

Sounds great! I'm a big fan of using (mostly) the same preamp. I only use my GR MP2H on vocals and acoustic guitar anymore.

Your trio sounds wonderful. (I'd like to hear it with a little less reverb on drums)

[drumsound]

I'm still collecting crayons, but at the same time, I've never listened to things I did on a Mackie 15 years ago, and thought about the preamps impact on the end result. They would sound different, but it's a very minor part of any retro observation.

Really? I always cringe when I listen to stuff I recorded on Mackies 15 years ago. I hate what the mackie preamp does to drums!

Yea, Mackie (the older-not sure about onyx) really hates drums. The worst signal chain known to man: SD>57.Mackie>ADAT. *shudder*

[calaverasgrandes]

haha, I guess coming from a background in which PEAVEY was a common mixer used for SR and Yamaha was one of the best, we kind of embraced the 1604 when it came out. It actually did have significant headroom when compared to a lot of contemporary mixers. I remember a few years in the early 90's when you could instantly tell that a club was using a Mackie because it wouldnt distort all the time.

So imagine my surprise when I started recording with my 1604 and some DAW programs. WTF is this crappy drum sound? I seriously thought it was my mics before I suspected the Mackie. In the long run the best thing I ever did for my recording rig was sell that sucker on craigslist.
I'll have to check out that Yamaha interface though. I'm thinking of setting up a semi-permanent rig at my bands practice space so we can bang out some demos and help expedite the song writing process.

[trodden]

(I'd like to hear it with a little less reverb on drums)

pffffffftttt...

[b3groover]

I've still got my original 1604, though it was never the same after that college house party I did when some drunk jack-ass decided to unleash an entire fire extinguisher on the band and all the dancers. Good times.

I went into some serious debt to buy that, an original blackface ADAT, and a pair of SM57s from Sweetwater (along with an Alesis 3130 compressor and that terrible 31-band graphic EQ they made with the minuscule sliders... man, that thing sucked). And I paid so much money for all that stuff, relative to what you can get today with that kind of cash.

I guess that's my point with this thread; we have the tools now, very inexpensive tools comparatively, to make really great sounding recordings. None of the mics I used cost that much money, compared to what was available 15 or 20 years ago. The interface is very inexpensive for what you get. Shit, my computer cost me $600 to put together 4 years ago; I could probably do it for even less now.

It's an exciting time. And it's nice to finally reach a point with my own little space where I can do what I want to do and not feel limited by the gear.

[emrr]

I'm still collecting crayons, but at the same time, I've never listened to things I did on a Mackie 15 years ago, and thought about the preamps impact on the end result. They would sound different, but it's a very minor part of any retro observation.

Really? I always cringe when I listen to stuff I recorded on Mackies 15 years ago. I hate what the mackie preamp does to drums!

Yea, Mackie (the older-not sure about onyx) really hates drums. The worst signal chain known to man: SD>57.Mackie>ADAT. *shudder*

My point being that I manage to enjoy the music, assuming the band was any good, and not think about what it was recorded with. I didn't say it was my choice, and it never is these days.

There are things I tracked on a Mackie and mixed on a Neve full of 33114 and 33115, and I doubt you'd say they were destroyed by the Mackie.

[calaverasgrandes]

in another 5 years or so the og 1604 will be "vintage". Expect to see racked pairs of Mackie channel strips, mackie emulation VST/AUs, boutique Mackie knockoffs.

[jgimbel]

in another 5 years or so the og 1604 will be "vintage". Expect to see racked pairs of Mackie channel strips, mackie emulation VST/AUs, boutique Mackie knockoffs.

Love it.

[Nick Sevilla]

Man,

This is why I love music.

AWESOME JOB.

Is that you playing the Hammond?

I remember this version,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzLDE9qv5-E

But, I must say your version also very beautiful.

BTW I have the AT450 mics, 4 of them. Aren't they just very dandy, or what?

Cheers

[Nick Sevilla]

in another 5 years or so the og 1604 will be "vintage". Expect to see racked pairs of Mackie channel strips, mackie emulation VST/AUs, boutique Mackie knockoffs.

Oh, I'm afraid it is already starting it's path towards that hallowed ground.

At least in the movie business. Lots of complaints about the new version and it's onyx mic preamps.

As much as everyone loves to rag on the Mackies, if used properly they can be the right console and or mic preamp.

A lot of Depeche Mode hits were recorded through their bigger 32 channel console, which has the same electronics... and I don't see anyone complain about those guys.

Some of Billy Idols' biggest hits, like Rebel Yell, were also partially recorded on a 32 channel Mackie too... anyone complain about that? nope...

Cheers