Any reliable 1/4" tape producers?

[williamsongs]

I have already read the copious amounts of postings and discussions about shedding, slitting, lifter and guide wear, adjustments, roller condition, bad batches, baking, tape age etc. etc. so not really looking for that information at this time.

My experience has been that I purchased a case of RMGI LP35 a few years ago, all of which was useless. I learned of their problems, listened to the promises of better production coming, bad batches being a thing of the past, and moved on. But...

I just bought another case from RMGI and it too is useless. Even after 4-5 slow winds you can still watch it snow brown and it's recording/playback is obviously no go in that condition. I want to buy tape that I can actually use. Novel idea...

So I figured ATR would be the next choice, only to read the exact same complaints about their tape shedding. Other than recycling old Scotch and Ampex tapes still sitting around here, what are the choices for reliable, non-BS 1/4" reels on 7"?

If ATR and RMGI are really the only options for new tape, and they both are unreliable yet costly, WTF are we supposed to do?

Any advice appreciated, except for "don't use tape"

[JohnDavisNYC]

ATR has been solid for me.

[@?,*???&?]

Unless you go NOS with Emtec/BASF formulations, ATR and RMGI are your sources.

4 years ago I had some bad RMGI and have absolutely none since. I'd stay away from the thin backing tapes- stick with 911, 900, 468 or the ATR stuff.

Thin backing is bad for a few reasons:

1. Greater print-through

2. longer reels of tape that are more fragile in the transports

I just wrapped up an album mix to RMGI 911 1/4" and everything went great.

btw, a little know secret formulation is Scotch 250. That stuff has held up WAY better than the Ampex equivalent of 456 and you can get reels from the 80't that play like new. I just grabbed a 1" reel from ebay and there is no sign of shed on a reel that dates from '86.

This is the formulation that the paint companies research adhesion on- because paint companies want their paint to stick to walls, doors, surfaces, etc. as well as this oxide.

[Beneficial]

Not only is ATR making tape... the quality is really good. I'm able to re-use the tape a lot. The price is great too, especially when you buy the pancakes.

[Matt C.]

i've had some minor problems with 1" ATR tape shedding little piles of oxide dust, although honestly i still can't tell whether it's the fault of the tape itself or the tape path on my machine. i feel like it's worth giving ATR tape a shot, i am generally very happy with it.

[Justin Foley]

i've had some minor problems with 1" ATR tape shedding little piles of oxide dust, although honestly i still can't tell whether it's the fault of the tape itself or the tape path on my machine. i feel like it's worth giving ATR tape a shot, i am generally very happy with it.

Where's the dust accumulate? On the face of the heads or on stationary parts of the tape path (like the edge of the stationary guides)?

= Justin

[Judas Jetski]

I too have had good luck with 3M Scotch 250. I believe the formulation is susceptible to sticky shed, but I haven't had any problems with mine. One thing about the 250, though--it's some dirty, dirty tape. Leaves oxide dust everywhere, and in little piles on the first few passes. Everything I've heard (read, experienced) indicates to me that a lot of the old 3M Scotch stuff just does that. Doesn't seem to impact performance much, except of course that you're always cleaning the heads to avoid dropouts.

Personally, I wouldn't worry much about dust. Scraps of tape, or little squiggly things coming off the edges of the tape? Yes. Any form of goo anywhere on the tape path anywhere? Yes. Either of those = a reel of tape on its way to the trash, around here. But I've come to accept dust as an unavoidable consequence of some tape types.

Another thing to think about is reel size. It may be that the tape manufacturers are considering 7" reel a "consumer format" and are saving their best stock for 10.5". I understand that most manufacturers use their best stock for the widest widths, and there's a possible roll-off in quality as they head towards the narrower sizes. They might be using the same mentality when winding reels.

[@?,*???&?]

I too have had good luck with 3M Scotch 250. I believe the formulation is susceptible to sticky shed, but I haven't had any problems with mine. One thing about the 250, though--it's some dirty, dirty tape. Leaves oxide dust everywhere, and in little piles on the first few passes. Everything I've heard (read, experienced) indicates to me that a lot of the old 3M Scotch stuff just does that. Doesn't seem to impact performance much, except of course that you're always cleaning the heads to avoid dropouts.

I haven't had this experience with it, but maybe will in the future. A little oxide from any tape is expected- I'm talking fine dust, not globs or goo. MCI machines really beat up any tape played on them. There are definitely better transports out there. Shimming take-up supply and take-up reels can help some to alleviate stress across the tape reel flanges. Always try and have your tape come from center of reel to center of take up reel. My Studer doesn't have any after market shims, but I use various widths of cardboard to shim where necessary. It seems the old BASF/EMTEC 7 reels are thicker plastic than most other manufacturers with Zonal plastic reels being slightly thinner. I wonder what the width is of the new RMGI reels.

[williamsongs]

Thanks for the responses, guys. Jeff, can you tell me more about your shimming of the reels? Where exactly are you placing the shims and how are you zeroing in on exactly the right thickness and location for them? Just eyeballing it?

I ask because it seems to me that any friction on the edges in the tape path is where most shedding seems to happen. On 1/4" reels it seems there is very little tolerance for any hub movement without even a little friction quickly causing real problems.

[Matt C.]

i've had some minor problems with 1" ATR tape shedding little piles of oxide dust, although honestly i still can't tell whether it's the fault of the tape itself or the tape path on my machine. i feel like it's worth giving ATR tape a shot, i am generally very happy with it.

Where's the dust accumulate? On the face of the heads or on stationary parts of the tape path (like the edge of the stationary guides)?

= Justin

not on the face of the heads or even on the guides themselves, i just end up with little piles of dust next to some of the stationary guides. i haven't noticed any really bad curling or scraping going on between the edges of the tape and the guides, but maybe enough to scrape off a little dust. not a major problem, but i worry a little.

[ricey]

i've had some minor problems with 1" ATR tape shedding little piles of oxide dust, although honestly i still can't tell whether it's the fault of the tape itself or the tape path on my machine. i feel like it's worth giving ATR tape a shot, i am generally very happy with it.

Where's the dust accumulate? On the face of the heads or on stationary parts of the tape path (like the edge of the stationary guides)?

= Justin

not on the face of the heads or even on the guides themselves, i just end up with little piles of dust next to some of the stationary guides. i haven't noticed any really bad curling or scraping going on between the edges of the tape and the guides, but maybe enough to scrape off a little dust. not a major problem, but i worry a little.

i think that's a slitting issue where the tape is a little wide for the path, not to be confused with shedding where the compound itself is not staying bound to the tape surface.

with ATR i get some extra dust sometimes on the outsides of the path - no problem, goes away after a few passes and the tape is "cut in".

with some batches of RMG i was getting shedding problems which is unacceptable.
too bad because i really like the sound of 911. but i live in Brasil, come to NYC a couple of times a year and take tape back with me - so i can't gamble with RMG anymore. ATR sounds fantastic (for different reasons) and is worth learning because it's very consistent.