vocal pedals for live use... where are they?

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pixeltarian
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vocal pedals for live use... where are they?

Post by pixeltarian » Fri Feb 11, 2011 11:37 am

does TC Helicon have the entire market for single effect pedals with there latest line of voicetone pedals (R1, T1, C1, etc) ???

I want a reverb pedal, and a compressor pedal with balanced inputs. no multi FX vocal pedals. I don't want auto tune or choral effects. I'm a feature-minimalist and I know I will never use those features.

I know some of you FOH guys fume at the idea of the vocalist controlling his own compression/reverb but it's because there are certain songs where WANT to be compressed to hell and have more verb on my vocals that FOH can usually deliver (I don't play many big venues).

so long story short...

what's the ideal choice for wanting to add verb/compression to my mic on stage?
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Post by Bro Shark » Fri Feb 11, 2011 12:55 pm

Hiring your own soundguy?

thethingwiththestuff
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Post by thethingwiththestuff » Fri Feb 11, 2011 1:13 pm

PLEASE please, please, please......PLEASE! Do not put your vocals through a compressor pedal from the stage. As a live sound guy... Please, don't. It's a horrible, horrible idea.

I dont care what kind of reverb, delay, looper, flange, whatever time based effect you want to put on your voice, we'll make it work. But you can't compress it on stage. Then you'll yell at me that your monitor is feeding back and I'm gonna shrug and turn it down.

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Post by trodden » Fri Feb 11, 2011 1:29 pm

IT LIVES!!!!!

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Post by ott0bot » Fri Feb 11, 2011 1:30 pm

sheesh....you sound guys are touchy. :D

but he's right....compression on stage can be tricky, as stated. it's usually not a great idea.

but so can getting a sound guy to actaully use the rack of gear they have sitting beside the console they mostly use as an arm rest....that is, if the venue even has rack gear.

jk....sound dudes. i myself have had the priveledge doing sound for such picky performers.

so...Bro Shark is kinda right.....hire someone, or be prepared to be that annoying guy who bugs the soundguy all night about your levels. Or call the venue and ask to bring in a few pieces of simple rack gear, and get it set up pre show. If the soundguy is anything like me, he'll give it a shot.

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Post by thethingwiththestuff » Fri Feb 11, 2011 1:43 pm

haha..... like i said, i dont care about reverb pedals, but the compression! ugh. people don't realize that you don't want to compress your vocal before the monitor send (in most small-mid sized clubs with no dedicated monitor guy). it's not about the FOH dude keeping control of the compression, it's about gain before feedback.

and is it I who lives??

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Post by pixeltarian » Fri Feb 11, 2011 1:48 pm

ott0bot wrote:sheesh....you sound guys are touchy. :D

but he's right....compression on stage can be tricky, as stated. it's usually not a great idea.

but so can getting a sound guy to actaully use the rack of gear they have sitting beside the console they mostly use as an arm rest....that is, if the venue even has rack gear.

jk....sound dudes. i myself have had the priveledge doing sound for such picky performers.

so...Bro Shark is kinda right.....hire someone, or be prepared to be that annoying guy who bugs the soundguy all night about your levels. Or call the venue and ask to bring in a few pieces of simple rack gear, and get it set up pre show. If the soundguy is anything like me, he'll give it a shot.

for a small band in Minneapolis, playing venues on a tuesday night you usually get the engineer who picked the sort straw. Because of this, "can you compress the hell out of the vocals for song 3 and 7?" translates as "_________." I once played a show where they were blasting the 'Chinese Democracy" over the top of my sound check because a guns n roses ad campaign buss pulled up and wanted to rent out the venue for a listening party until my set started, since the party was sortof still going when I got up there I just heard guns n roses real loud. I had to ask the FOH guy if we could turn the music off for the sound check and he merely turned it down.


most FOH guys I try and talk to about my set just seem irritated. basically i want a compression pedal to deal with ass holes.

that, and I like the sound of squashed reverb vocals as an effect, not a practical "this is what it sounds like in real life" sort of mix.
"Every person who wins in any undertaking must be willing to cut all sources of retreat."
- Napoleon Hill

http://www.jeffreyjamesmusic.com
spook folk

http://www.myspace.com/tonguesonpaper
electro atmospheric rock

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Post by thethingwiththestuff » Fri Feb 11, 2011 1:54 pm

i mean, cool, sounds like a good idea! i dont forsee any issues arising. check out the TC helicons...

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Post by pixeltarian » Fri Feb 11, 2011 1:55 pm

thethingwiththestuff wrote:people don't realize that you don't want to compress your vocal before the monitor send (in most small-mid sized clubs with no dedicated monitor guy).
what if I use a splitter after the pedals? send one to a monitor channel and the other to the house.
"Every person who wins in any undertaking must be willing to cut all sources of retreat."
- Napoleon Hill

http://www.jeffreyjamesmusic.com
spook folk

http://www.myspace.com/tonguesonpaper
electro atmospheric rock

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Post by thethingwiththestuff » Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:23 pm

that's possible. the other night i took two lines from a singer, and only put the "dry" in the wedge. i do believe it was a TC Helicon (apparently these come with your apartment when you move to brooklyn, like gideon bibles) and it had multiple outs. dude will need two channels if he's doing FOH and monitors, but if he's got them free, it'll work.

FWIW, that singer would have been just fine without her pedal, and her monitor mix would have been better ;)

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Post by pixeltarian » Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:29 pm

thethingwiththestuff wrote:FWIW, that singer would have been just fine without her pedal, and her monitor mix would have been better ;)
I do some things to my vocals. maybe it's a bad thing. do you think this stuff would sound just as good dry?
http://www.myspace.com/jeffreyjamesmusic

I just think there's a lot of differing EQ/Comp/verb choices I've made in the recordings. I know my mixes are far from perfect, but you can at least hear why I'm attempting what I'm attempting with the vocal FX chain. I just hate to see it all gone when I play live, and I can't afford to hire a FOH guy.
"Every person who wins in any undertaking must be willing to cut all sources of retreat."
- Napoleon Hill

http://www.jeffreyjamesmusic.com
spook folk

http://www.myspace.com/tonguesonpaper
electro atmospheric rock

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trodden
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Post by trodden » Fri Feb 11, 2011 5:14 pm

thethingwiththestuff wrote:
and is it I who lives??
No. Well, i'm glad you lives, but i was referring to the topic of this thread, which basically comes up every 3 months in some version or another and usually turns into some awesome internet fight in some way or another as well.

and

5

4

3

...

thethingwiththestuff
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Post by thethingwiththestuff » Fri Feb 11, 2011 6:23 pm

Of course you want to present your live show as well as you can with the effects you used on your record. It's just going to be hard until you can afford a sound guy. Some of your attempts to fill the gap will work, but some won't be the best idea. I say, go for time-based effects, maybe even distortion (try a parallel mic and amp for that instead), but avoid causing more feedback issues for those lazy soundguys you may encounter.

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Post by iC » Sat Feb 12, 2011 6:00 am

The splitter is a very good idea. Split before you hit the pedals, thus giving the FOH a clean vox, and a separate wet signal. Then inform FOH that you prefer the vox to be wetter, rather than dryer. Keep the dry in your wedge for monitor purposes and leave the wet in the house. If you are performing in small venues, you WILL hear the verb from the FOH PA and not muddy up the wedges with wetness...
Bad attitudes abound in the FOH world - long hours and poor pay- but then there's lots of good attitudes as well. Arm yourself with patience and a streamlined setup. This will make things easier for everyone involved. I can't imagine any FOH guy having a problem with taking two vox lines. That just seems silly.
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Re: vocal pedals for live use... where are they?

Post by ampguy » Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:53 am

I'd give the TC R1 a test, and if that doesn't do it, then get a small pedalboard sized 1 or 2 input mixer with preamp (and eq if needed), then run it through guitar pedals for compression (check out the demeter pedals), then send that line out, converting back to XLR if you must.
pixeltarian wrote:does TC Helicon have the entire market for single effect pedals with there latest line of voicetone pedals (R1, T1, C1, etc) ???

I want a reverb pedal, and a compressor pedal with balanced inputs. no multi FX vocal pedals. I don't want auto tune or choral effects. I'm a feature-minimalist and I know I will never use those features.

I know some of you FOH guys fume at the idea of the vocalist controlling his own compression/reverb but it's because there are certain songs where WANT to be compressed to hell and have more verb on my vocals that FOH can usually deliver (I don't play many big venues).

so long story short...

what's the ideal choice for wanting to add verb/compression to my mic on stage?

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