One mic drum recording...again.

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jrdamien
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One mic drum recording...again.

Post by jrdamien » Tue Feb 15, 2011 2:30 pm

Minimalist recording project on the Tascam 388. I have 3 good mics to use and they're all sm57's. I'd like to mic the drums in the Dap fashion (is there a name for this technique other than 'one mic'?) because I want a particular tone. But can it be done well with a 57?

Any suggestions on initial placement? It's a 4 piece kick, he plays hard, and there's a good amount of floor tom in almost all of the songs.

I also have an MXL 770 condenser.

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Post by Snarl 12/8 » Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:34 pm

Maybe time to go with the ass/crotch mic placement, but I dunno.

Hard to imagine anything good coming out of mic'ing an entire kit with one 57. It's going to come down to the best placement for that drummer in that room on that day, as usual, but placement more critical. You're just going to have to have someone out in the room while the drummer bashes away and you listen in the control room until you get the best spot.

Maybe distance + bass boost (eq) is your friend?

Are you willing to use 2 mics? By "Dap" are you referring to "The Daptones" "shitty is pretty" aesthetic? Because I don't think the take home point of those articles was "you gotta use one mic on the drums to get this sound" but more "just use what you got and make it sound the way you want and don't worry if it sounds "shitty" and don't agonize over gear." I'm saying that because if you were willing to put one 57 out in front of the kick and one over the kit you'd have an easier time getting some balance and it would still sound shitty (possibly in a great way) and I think you could still keep your "Dap" cred just fine. Is there a story about U2 recording the kit with one 57 on one of their early records?
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Post by Gregg Juke » Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:56 pm

Yeah, if I was you, and I was adamant about using one mike, I'd go with the MXL condenser. I have used two 57's as drum overheads (live), and one bass drum mike (ATM25) and one 57 as an overhead (live)...

If you check out the drum sound in this video, it will give you a better idea of what Carl is talking about with two microphones:

>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DF1Q2Z_uax4 <<<<

One bd mike and one condenser overhead (Joe Meek). Not bad, for mono, mostly un-touched/un-mixed drums, but if you really want control, you should consider multiple miking.

GJ

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Post by jrdamien » Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:10 pm

Snarl 12/8 wrote:Are you willing to use 2 mics? By "Dap" are you referring to "The Daptones" "shitty is pretty" aesthetic? Because I don't think the take home point of those articles was "you gotta use one mic on the drums to get this sound" but more "just use what you got and make it sound the way you want and don't worry if it sounds "shitty" and don't agonize over gear." I'm saying that because if you were willing to put one 57 out in front of the kick and one over the kit you'd have an easier time getting some balance and it would still sound shitty (possibly in a great way) and I think you could still keep your "Dap" cred just fine. Is there a story about U2 recording the kit with one 57 on one of their early records?
This isn't about cred. I'm referring to Roth's use of a singular sm 55 between the kick and snare, hitting the tape hard, to get a particular motown sound.

The 55 is little different than the 57 save for the housing and so I'm wondering how the placement might need to be different.

This is shitty by necessity. 3 mics for one drum kit and two amps.

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Post by dave watkins » Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:33 pm

if that's what you have to work with then just go for it and have fun. use Roth's mic placement ideas as a starting points if you like, if it doesn't sound good then move stuff around till you find the right sound, it all really depends on the player, what the room sounds like, and the gear, and keep in mind that no advice on here is gonna tell you as much as laying some tracks down and hearing the tape play back. hit record, get crazy!

also i don't think the 388s had phantom power, so using a separate mic preamp (w/phantom power) or a phantom power supply is gonna be the only way your gonna get that mxl into the picture.
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Post by mertmo » Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:56 pm

I've done it before with a single 57, over the right shoulder placed up high, pointing
almost straight down. Sounded absolutely fantastic UNTIL the cymbal bashing
begun...

So if the drummer can go light on the cymbals, this could really work well, depending
on the room etc...

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Post by jgimbel » Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:57 pm

One of the best drum sounds I've ever gotten was when I first started and knew nothing about mic placement, and I stuck a $20 Nady SM58 imitation between the rack tops angled down a bit toward the snare. I wouldn't say there was a big booming kick but it sounded really great. Then I "learned" and spent many years making things way too complicated to get back to the sound of one mic well-placed.
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Post by jrdamien » Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:31 am

dave watkins wrote:also i don't think the 388s had phantom power, so using a separate mic preamp (w/phantom power) or a phantom power supply is gonna be the only way your gonna get that mxl into the picture.
I do but didn't intend to use it unless the 57's were out of the question for the one mic I need to use.

I hear that the mxl 770 is mostly junk. I've only ever used it to record spoken word to a laptop.

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Post by Stablenet » Wed Feb 16, 2011 6:45 am

Do you have access to a ribbon? I ask because they tend to be a little darker and will tame the brass a little.

One over the top of the kit, with you experimenting with what it's "looking" at should do the trick. If you can put something else on the kick that would be great - even your 57.

If you can do three mics, the Glyn Johns/Recorderman technique is fantastic. There are a lot of videos out there that give excellent instructions. I've done this using cheap overhead condensers and a dynamic on the kick with excellent results. It's better if you have a pair of ribbons overhead for the reasons I've mentioned.
Surely you have a pal that can hook you up?

Anyway, this will definitely give you the minimalist sound. Remember that when you have fewer mics, you have less control, so it helps a lot to have a great drummer. Frankly, as cliche' as it sounds, that's the most important thing.

Good luck!
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Post by DrummerMan » Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:14 am

No reason you can't use the 57 for what you're going for. I've recorded at Daptone with the single 55 and I can tell you we placed it about 5-6 inches behind, down, and to the right of my right butt-cheek, kind of pointing between the snare and kick. Heavily compressed. SOunded great, got plenty of kick and plenty of snare as long as I played it hard enough. That 55 they use is very directional so it gets a much more focused sound than the 57 probably will but just move it around until you find the appropriate balance and go for it.

Obviously it won't automatically sound the same, different mic, recording chain, room, drummer, drum set, etc., but I find that position to be really useful for getting a balance of all the drums, with plenty of both attack and body from the kick.

Have fun!

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Post by accordion squeezist » Wed Feb 16, 2011 4:59 pm

I could be mistaken, but I think I read on mixonline Classic Tracks that "Green River" - Creedence Clearwater Revival was recorded entirely with SM56's, including the drums. That's bare light bulb swingin' rock & roll.

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Post by ofajen » Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:58 am

I often record with just an overhead and one mike out front of the kick. Pretty much always have the Studio Traps around the kit. The mike out front is mainly there to get a better sampling of the kick sound, but if I put all thirteen around the kit, even the kick can sound somewhat OK thru just the overhead mike, depending on the sound I'm after.

I pretty much always use the SM80 omnis to get an accurate bass sound. They also have a flat high end so the cymbals aren't being hyped.

Still critical to play the drums loud and go easy on the cymbals. OTOH, with good playing, it's consistent and pretty much foolproof to get a good solid sound without any weird stuff.

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Post by Edva » Sun Feb 20, 2011 4:06 pm

Wrap a piece of tape around the vents on the side of the 57. That will make the patter more omni. Use the crotch mic position.
Alternatively, use the mic un-taped close to the drummer's head. This will result in more cymbals however.
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Post by jrdamien » Sun Feb 20, 2011 9:06 pm

Edva wrote:Wrap a piece of tape around the vents on the side of the 57. That will make the patter more omni. Use the crotch mic position.
Alternatively, use the mic un-taped close to the drummer's head. This will result in more cymbals however.
Will this be too omni directional though?

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Post by Edva » Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:26 am

jrdamien wrote:
Edva wrote:Wrap a piece of tape around the vents on the side of the 57. That will make the patter more omni. Use the crotch mic position.
Alternatively, use the mic un-taped close to the drummer's head. This will result in more cymbals however.
Will this be too omni directional though?
Not in crotch position, you want the omni pickup there. Obviously, better to use a real omni (two is ideal), but in the situation as I read the OP, this might be one way to do it.
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